Info needed: correct colours for WWII Aust vehicles

[Mike Cecil]

Jack, that's the nature of a good discussion: you don't always have to agree at the end, simply respect the other opinion, then have a couple of beers!

Mike

[Tony Wheeler]

So Mike, how would you explain these carriers freshly painted in 2-tone scheme November 43 in NSW...?

NSW Railways Chullora workshops showing machine gun carriers in for rectification on 23 November.jpg

[Lang]

Tony

Not that I know anything about the paint details but the photo says "in for rectification". This to my mind means they are not new and could well be unissued stocks, built long ago, back to the factory for latest modifications before being issued for the first time.

I have absolutely no evidence but from the photo description, old stock is of equal weight to newly painted. Easy to read into anything what suits your argument while the bloke in disagreement reads the opposite from the same evidence.

Keep it going!

Lang

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Lang

This to my mind means they are not new and could well be unissued stocks, built long ago, back to the factory for latest modifications before being issued for the first time.

Good point Lang, I think you're probably right. So the question is, what colours are we seeing here?

[Tony Wheeler]

Mike I'll take you up on those beers if I ever get to Washington, I hear they've got some great brewpubs over there!

[Tony Wheeler]

I’ve done some digging in my photo files and the plot thickens with these Chullora carriers! Following series of photos posted by Cam Finlay on Facebook last year show brand new carriers in field parade in single colour KG3 circa early-mid 42 (judging by vehicle types present) followed by what appear to be camo field trials in mid-42 (wet, boggy, men in greatcoats) followed by carriers in 2-tone camo seen at Workshops in late ’42 (bright, sunny, men in shirts) followed by Sydney street parade showing carriers in identical 2-tone pattern to those pictured in Chullora Workshops photo dated 23 November 1943. I’ve also dug up AWM photos of these carriers in Sydney parade which date the event to 12 December 42.

I therefore believe the NSW Railways archive photo has the year wrong (not uncommon I find) and the “rectification” carried out was disruptive painting in Young’s scheme. Except for some reason the AT and Mortar carriers, on which the earlier pattern is seen and the colours are much closer in tone, looking very much like KG3 / Light Earth to me. Perhaps this was a matter of timing - recall Young ordered 8000 gallons of paint on July 8 but his MC319 Variation was approved in October and was adopted by 2 Aust Army around that time (G1862 dated 8 November) meaning these carriers had to wait until November to receive disruptive camo. Perhaps the AT and Mortar carriers were deemed more urgent and received the currently approved colours at the time.

I note that 8000 gallons will cover 8000 x 15cwt vehicles or 4000 x 3-ton vehicles, according to standard instructions, and that’s in the field with 4” brush, not the miserly thin spraycoat applied in production, which might be expected to double that coverage. Whatever the case it seems clear Young was dealing in production quantities, and he was certainly keen to promote his scheme.

Cam Finlay FB Dec 2016 NSW field camo trials (1).jpg

Cam Finlay FB Dec 2016 NSW field camo trials (2) (Large).jpg

Cam Finlay FB Dec 2016 Chullora Workshops November 42.jpg

Cam Finlay FB Dec 2016 Sydney parade 12-12-42 a.jpg

Sydney 12 Dec 42 parade, carriers.jpg

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

Mike I'll take you up on those beers if I ever get to Washington, I hear they've got some great brewpubs over there!

You'll still have a way to go to find Mike if you go to Washington!

[Mike Cecil]

Or a 'gross overshoot' Keith, depending upon which way around the globe Tony travels!!

Mike

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

You'll still have a way to go to find Mike if you go to Washington!

Keith I’m talking about Washington State in the Pacific Northwest. It’s a renowned hop growing region for the craft brewing industry, areas like Yakima Valley which have spawned a thriving brewpub scene. Seattle quite famous for brewpubs, I figure there’d be something in Colbert too…?