My Truck

[Rod Salter]

I have my Father's truck. WW2 desert guards



Firewall Stencil M 291 or upside down W 291



VIN Number 14 - 15 S 291



Engine Number



136 inch wheel base



I have searched MLU, Stovebolt and many links,
I am unable to identify this truck,
Please could some one help?

All suggestions will be gratefully received

Cheers rod

[Rod Salter]

On the front are civvies



On the rear are blitz



And it used to go fast



Cheers rod

[Mike Cecil]

1941 Chevrolet Series 15.

The chassis number should be 'findable' in AWM126:

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/AWM126/

Good luck. There are only 120,000 vehicles listed, but yours should be in the earlier AMF registers (probably a five digit registration).

Mike

[Ken Smith]

Good day Rod,
Welcome to the forum, you have a lovely truck.
I researched my Australian cabbed Chevrolet truck earlier this year using the AWM registration books to find out a tiny bit of history. It took a lot of hours to find the chassis number but I was able to find that my truck had been to the Middle East on the ship Tricolor spelt Tricolour in the AWM books.
The other thing I found was the trucks with the small wheel stud, 18 inch rims like yours are 30 cwt (1-1/2 ton) and the trucks with the bigger stud, 5 stud 18 inch rims are 3 tonners.
The rims are not blitz they are uniquely Australian Chevrolet and are stamped GMH.
My truck was fortunate enough to survive the Middle East return to Australia and was sold to GMH after the war.
As more of these Chev cabs are being turned into rat rods or garden art a good complete truck is becoming a rarity.
Ken

[Mike K]

If is is a 30 cwt chassis the original tyre size would be 900-18 . The firewall stencil looks like 41 = 1941 not M or W .

Good luck finding 18" tyres . Back in 1998 I was offered one of these trucks for next to nothing , located on a farm near Kilmore.

[jack neville]

11.00 x18” tyres are available now from Coker Tyres in the States.
I have 5 en route by sea now for my Ford/ Marmon Herrington.
They are not cheap but I found bringing them in myself was cheaper than buying them through Antique Tyres in Melbourne.

[Mike Cecil]

Rod,

Your truck was originally configured as a 'Lorry, 30cwt, GS' (tray body with fixed sides and front, with tailgate). Registration number C-23442. It still has the original engine.

Taken on charge in 2nd Military District (ie NSW) which figures as it was built in GMH's Sydney plant (the 'S' in the chassis number).

Disposal to GMH.

Regards

Mike

[Lang]

Would the strange engine number indicate the engine was either built for or replaced in Africa?

Lang

[Mike Cecil]

What do you find strange about the number, Lang?

There are many Aust military Chevs listed with the AFR prefixed number as the original engine number.

Mike

[Ken Smith]

Good day Mike,
What do you think the stamp, 2520 UNIT US ORDER on the opposite page to the ARN means. I see at the top of the page on some of the listings it has a hand written notation U/S 2520 UNIT. Do they mean a Canadian order for 2520 chassis?
I noticed some of the preceding ARN,s are for cab 12 DND Fords that are shown as US vehicles on English order No 886 War Dept. I am guessing that in the mind of the people entering the information that Canada was another U.S. State.

Cheers Ken

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Ken,

I take the reference to 'US' order to mean an order through/on the British Purchasing Commission based in New York, which body was controlling the 'bids' for items by Commonwealth countries, and the allocation of items to Commonwealth countries from each months actual production. The BPC looked at what was available, who wanted what, the urgency of the requirement, and allocated accordingly. This certainly applies to the Cab 12 order, but I'm not sure of the date when Australia ceased ordering direct from US suppliers and when the BPC took over all allocations from North American production, so the '2520 US Order' is possibly one of the direct to US supplier orders common in 1940-41.

Mike

[Lang]

Mike

I was just wondering if it indicated African delivery or was one of the hundreds (thousands?) of replacement engines sent to Africa and subsequently brought back to be progressively fitted as required to many vehicles? Maybe African spec engines were included in direct Australian CKD type deliveries at this time?

Looking at web sites the prefix "A" indicates a "normal" 216 motor built in Flint Michigan and the prefix "F" indicates a 235 engine built in Flint Michigan. Obviously not used together as in Rod's truck.

Lang

[Mike Cecil]

Lang

I am not aware that the prefix indicated a country of destination, or anything along those lines. From my notes, Chev vehicles in Aust service include engine number prefixes include AFR, TBR, BFR, TR, WR, WP, AVB, CR, etc, but what this myriad of prefixes indicate is a mystery to me! The Ford ones I've managed to work out, but not the Chev ones. Maybe a Chev enthusiast (Motto where are you?) can get us all up to speed on that aspect.

In this case, the engine was that supplied in the vehicle when built in Sydney and first taken on charge by Army - the AWM126 entry does not indicate it as a replacement engine. It is, of course, a 'series 15' so a Canadian-sourced chassis/running gear.

Mike

[Lang]

Mike

Just thought I would give you something to keep your mind active while waiting up trying to catch Santa.

Lang

[Mike Cecil]

Mate, not in this household! The Xmas decor is minamalist and if some bearded twirp lands his 'Sleigh Mk2' on the roof and tries climbing down our chimney in the middle of the night, he's likely to get a blast of AA Buck!

Still, we will enjoy lunch tomorrow (25 Dec - it's only 14:15 on 24th here now) with some friends, overlooking the white-blanketed countryside and the ice shelves along the river banks. Ain't winter wonderful!?

Best to you for the season... must be blisteringly hot in Qld??

Mike

[Lang]

All the best to you as well.

Yes it is warm, grand kids have been in the pool for ages. About to put down my beer and join them before the women finish "slaving over a hot stove". We do the traditional roast pork plus heaps of prawns and of course the flaming plum pud.

Lang

[Mike K]

This thread has wandered into chev. engine numbers .

This 1940 15 cwt project has engine nr. CR 2003874 . The engine was running when I first found the vehicle back in 98 ? This is a Jan 40 assembled Chev and as far as I can tell, somehow it escaped military service , I am guessing that around 99.9 % of these vehicles would have gone into the military. Looking through the AWM pics , the AIF had many of these 40 models. I specifically wanted a 1940 15 cwt model and I searched high and low for years before finding this one. I could have bought any number of the 41-47 15 cwt models ( slightly longer wheelbase ) , a dime a dozen .

[Mike Cecil]

Perhaps we should get Hanno to transfer this to a new thread??

Not every lorry/van from 1939 & 1940 production, particularly in the early stages of 1940, was acquired by the military. There are big gaps in assigned engine and chassis numbers during this early period, meaning the vehicles in between were sold to other users (perhaps to be impressed later on?)

In the case of the Chev 15cwt Van, a quick look shows there are a bunch of engine numbers around CR2003874, but not that particular one. Numbers such as CR2003853 and CR2003877, CR2003878, ....3879,.....3880, ....3881, but nothing I can find in between (CR2003854 to CR2003876). These are all assigned to AIF (ie AIF-V-1269 is CR2003853, for example). The AMF listings show few 15cwt, 1940 Chevs - they are mainly 1939 models, eg CR1994024 is C-5924.)

Nice van, Mike:when are you going to start work on it?

Mike

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Perhaps we should get Hanno to transfer this to a new thread??

Not every lorry/van from 1939 & 1940 production, particularly in the early stages of 1940, was acquired by the military. There are big gaps in assigned engine and chassis numbers during this early period, meaning the vehicles in between were sold to other users (perhaps to be impressed later on?)

In the case of the Chev 15cwt Van, a quick look shows there are a bunch of engine numbers around CR2003874, but not that particular one. Numbers such as CR2003853 and CR2003877, CR2003878, ....3879,.....3880, ....3881, but nothing I can find in between (CR2003854 to CR2003876). These are all assigned to AIF (ie AIF-V-1269 is CR2003853, for example). The AMF listings show few 15cwt, 1940 Chevs - they are mainly 1939 models, eg CR1994024 is C-5924.)

Nice van, Mike:when are you going to start work on it?

Mike

Ok thanks for looking up those engine numbers, very close !

Of interest is this example I have has the narrow civilian rims fitted, for 600-16 tyres , the army parts book lists wider rims for the 7.50-16 tyres . And also mentioned in the NASCO 1940 army parts book , they eventually fitted the 4 speed crash box , the earlier ones had a smaller 3 speed box .

A guy turned up at the Warragul show with a 39 version , virtually identical . He found it up at Winton ,with the original GMH rear tub in amazing condition. I have his details so there is an original tub to measure up.

[Rod Salter]

Thanks for all this information fellas keep any information coming

Mike Cecil Special Thanks
( started to look through the books but could not understand them yet perhaps a direct link to relevant page pretty please )

Mike Kelly like your truck

Certainly hot today, so took the longest ways to visit relatives with the AC full blast and then drove slow to see the scenery.
Wind has come up and cooling things down some now.

Hope you all had a good xmas day too
everyone rod

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Rod,

Your truck was originally configured as a 'Lorry, 30cwt, GS' (tray body with fixed sides and front, with tailgate). Registration number C-23442. It still has the original engine.

Taken on charge in 2nd Military District (ie NSW) which figures as it was built in GMH's Sydney plant (the 'S' in the chassis number).

Disposal to GMH.

Regards

Mike

Mike, where do I find the "C" prefix ARN's. I have sleuthed through the AWM 126 books but have not found any "C" prefixed numbers. I have seen plenty of "C" numbers in photos but don't know where to look them up.

Thanks Rick.

[Mike Cecil]

Rod,

Go to the bottom of this page:

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C2143574?image=104


Rick: re 'C' prefix: see my latest post under 'NT Pics'. For a more detailed explanation of the AMF and AIF registration schemes and prefixes, see pages 6 & 7 of my AMEP Volume 2: LP Carriers.

Mike

[Rod Salter]

Thanks again Mike,

Then for fun, I looked for consecutive engine numbers to mine, Can't find any.
I guess engines could have ended up anywhere in the world.


And Mike you have better eyesight than me!



It is not a upside down W but as you said a 41.

.................................................. ................................

"Anyone" ? What are these holders for ?



The vertical unit has this bottle in it, I suspect it should have a cork in the neck.



Old age equivalent to "Start you bastard" ?

.................................................. ...................

And then I have found the reason for the leak in the water pump



The mice have eaten the cork out of the hole !!! (or maybe it just rotted away) Lucky I have managed to find a spare pump with an impeller and a fan no less.

.................................................. ...............................

And finally, What are these tanks for ?



They are different. Both have a pipe fitting on opposite sides.
These pipes are at differing heights. There is no other way of getting any substance (air/water/petrol) inside.

Cheers rod

[Mike Cecil]

(1) the holder on the left is for the small oil can. The 'holder' on the right is an overflow tank with the end cut out and apparently fits a bottle - not a standard fitting.

(2) the tank on the right is a CMP overflow tank. Don't recognise the one on the left.

Mike

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

(1) the holder on the left is for the small oil can. The 'holder' on the right is an overflow tank with the end cut out and apparently fits a bottle - not a standard fitting.

(2) the tank on the right is a CMP overflow tank. Don't recognise the one on the left.

Mike

The one on the left looks like the bracket and overflow tank for a Ford Lynx. The bracket is made to suit the angles on the right side of the engine bay. The tank is actually an identical size to the other although in the photo of the two tanks, the left one looks smaller.

This is mine.



Regards Rick.

[Mike Cecil]

Thanks Rick, not owning a Lynx, I'd not seen one of the tanks close up.

Mike

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Rod,

Go to the bottom of this page:

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C2143574?image=104


Rick: re 'C' prefix: see my latest post under 'NT Pics'. For a more detailed explanation of the AMF and AIF registration schemes and prefixes, see pages 6 & 7 of my AMEP Volume 2: LP Carriers.

Mike

Thanks Mike C. I have finally located the correct AWM126 books . Seems I had looked at the AIF not AMF books and did not realize that the "C" prefix was dropped in the books.

I also pulled AMEP Vol.2, out to refresh my memory after your advice.

Interestingly at the top of the page on which my Staff Car ARN M-15 Chev 5 passenger is shown, is M-1, the Rolls Royce "Wraith" (Chassis No WRB40, Engine No. K4WV.) with a body built by Kellow-Falkiner which was on loan for the duration of the war from Mr George J. Coles of Melbourne. It was returned to Mr. Coles in 1946. During the war it was used by Gen.Sir Thomas Blamey. After returning to Mr. Coles, it was registered with Vic Rego. HN-000. It is still around. There were only 5 "Wraith" model Rolls Royce cars which came to Australia before WWII. All are still around although not necessarily all still in Australia.



Regards Rick.

[Mike Cecil]

Interesting, Rick. The Roller 'AIF-M1' wasn't taken overseas, of course, but spent its army life based at Vic Barracks in Melbourne (AHQ, later Land Headquarters - LHQ). (M is the AIF and pre-war AMF type-code for a passenger car).

Blamey's 'AIF-M1' overseas was firstly, a Chev 5 passenger car from Australia, then a left hand drive Buick, one of several acquired in the Middle East. So for the first 2-odd years of the war, Blamey would have seen little of the Roller - I assume other senior officers based at AHQ got to ride around in it in Blamey's absence. Much more comfortable than a Chev, I've no doubt.

We are wandering a long way from Rod's new lorry! All interesting, though.

Mike

[Mike Cecil]

Rod,

Forgot to mention: the '41' etc under the bonnet/on the firewall is part of the underbonnet nomenclature required by the Army for all vehicles from around August 42. Vehicles already in service were supposed to have it applied by units (but were not always), so we see a wide variety of methods of application on older in-service vehicles - rough or well hand painted depending on the skill of the 'artist' and the ease of access. Stenciled like yours is less common on vehicles already in service, making the marking's preservation something you might consider as you progress with the restoration.

Mike

[Rod Salter]

Thanks Mike,

I was thinking to maybe leave the firewall as is un-restored
You have convinced me now,

Thanks also fellers for identifying the little tanks

The discussions you-all are having is interesting

Cheers rod