FV603 Saracen

[Bob Carriere]

HI Robin

There was a second Saracen at one time on the St Laurent rear compound.....strangely both middle wheel assembly/suspension had been removed although present nearby...... the inside, from the back door, was totally empty of any testing/radar equipment....... there was no top side antenna on that one....... and not far away was the original Bras D'Or hydrofoil slowly rotting away under multilayers of decaying tarps.

Security in the early 1970 was non existent....... the old Morrison Lamothe bread plant, which later became the Museum, was open to numerous dead end rail lines which were not gated.

Back then Osgoode had a yard with half a dozen Mosquitoes with the fuselage spine broken in two ...... Crown asset used a heavy steel plate suspended from a crane and let her drop...... cases of RR engines....... which were worthless due to their aluminum content that was cheap back then... a stack of engine exhaust manifold were rescued and eventually shipped to Australia.....then there was the junk yard in Kemptville which had two Churchill tanks.... bridge layers for seawalls.... one of which is at the CWM..... the other one was cut up for scrap......and tons of USA multifuel Coleman double ended aircraft tugs.... both tanks were complete with full Bedford engine packs and internal firing stations........

....and then you still had the whole Quebec side of the river with more yards to explore.... some were almost downtown.

Cheers

[rob love]

I have had a few dealings with the type of radar unit in question, the AN/MPQ501. I had a request from someone thru the chain of command wanting photos of the radar and of the APCs that had them mounted. I informed the requester that there was actually a AN/MPQ501 sitting about 40 feet form my desk, just outside the fire exit. I also drove one of the APCs that used to have the radar setup on it during my TQ3 course in Borden. I remembered it because the hatches were relocated.

He talked about coming out to the museum, but I pointed out to him that there is still a loose 501 sitting at the science and tech museum. I didn't know about the vehicle mounted one.

The 501 was touted as being fairly advanced when they first came out around 1957. The NRC had a few that they were trying to upgrade in the early to mid 60s. By the 70s, they were well past their prime, and eventually the radar units were removed from the carriers.

In the end, I was not able to help the fellow with any photos of the APC with the radar. He was especially interested n the topside. Does anyone here have any photos they would share?

[Ed Storey]

Here is an image of the AN/MPQ 501 and the final mounting configuration with the modifications to the upper hull of the M113A1CDN. This is not the photograph used in my Service Publications WoW book on the M113A1CDN nor my article in IMPS RT but gives a better view of the top hull.

Counter-Mortar Radar AN MPQ-501 mounted on M113A1.jpg

Prior to the introduction of the M113A1CDN by the Canadian military the AN/MPQ 501 was intended to be mounted on the Bobcat and here is a concept photograph of that configuration.

Scale model of AN-MPQ 501 Radar on Bobcat.jpg

COUNTER-MORTAR RADAR AN/MPQ-501

This Counter-Mortar Radar equipment was developed for the Canadian Army by the National Research Council and was production-engineered and produced by Raytheon Canada Limited. The AN/MPQ-501 equipment was a mobile microwave radar for the field forces designed to locate the source of hostile mortars, rockets, and other high-angle artillery. It also had demonstrated an ability to locate field artillery and provide rapid registration of counter gunfire. Designed for mounting on an armoured vehicle of the M113 and other types, the radar had a high degree of mobility, enabling it to move rapidly to site, perform its function, and then quickly move away. The air transportability of this equipment, when mounted on such an armoured vehicle, had been demonstrated by the RCAF when they transported tactical vehicular installations of this radar equipment non-stop to Europe from the RCAF Downsview airport in a C130 Hercules.

The AN/ MPQ-501 would perform the following functions:-
(a) Accurate location of hostile mortars and other high-angle artillery.
(b) Registration and adjustment of divisional artillery.
(c) Location of hostile ballistic rocket positions.
(d) Combat area surveillance.
(e) Survey of own and other positions.

Outstanding features of Radar AN/ MPQ-501
• 5 minutes into action and 2 minutes out of action-day or night.
• One man setup and operation without exposure.
• Fully automatic antenna levelling.
• Automatic loading and stowage.
• Automatic time insertion, beam centering and shifting.
• First round location.
• Simultaneous fire capabilities.
• True presentation of signal pairs to avoid confusion.
• Single beam extrapolation provided.
• Locations in both Cartesian and polar co-ordinates.
• Fall of shot corrections direct on counters.
• Fast automatic computer clearing between rounds.
• No trailer, no field cables-self-contained and powered on single armoured
vehicle allowing maximum mobility.
• Fully air-conditioned including N.B.C. protection.
• Frequency, power, noise figure and tuning monitored.

Raytheon Canada Limited was equipped to design, develop, and manufacture
high quality radar systems such as the AN/ MPQ-501, as well as communications radar equipment for airport and airways surveillance.

[Robin Craig]

This film link was shared by Colin Alford on another vehicle shown in it but inspection shows Saracen 02 BB 40 and some kind of Thornycroft truck on trial at around the 2 minute mark

I wonder where this footage was taken at? The concrete inclines and the Belgian Pave looks familiar doesn't it?

http://images.nfb.ca/images/pages/en...84&docAttId=34

[David Herbert]

My first thought is FVRDE Chertsey in the UK. There must have been similar facilities in Canada but I can't see why a prototype Thornycroft truck would have been shipped over.

The film as offered in the link is an odd mix of short bits of film with no real linkage between them. I think someone just collected clips with "military vehicles" and lumped them together.

David

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Not to mention a Centurion as well.
Rich.

[rob love]

Most likely it is filmed at LETE in Orleans. That was the Cdn test establishment for 50 years. It was closed as a cost cutting measure, and testing would be contracted out after that point.

When Canada would look at replacing a fleet of vehicles, there was quite a variety. Back then, it seemed we stuck to the US based wheeled vehicles, but we still trialed non-North American vehicles too.