Ontario Museum buys fake German vehicles

[James P]

And this purchase should be held up as a cautionary tale as to doing ones due diligence and research before committing to the purchase, at the least book a flight down to get eyes on the vehicles and actually know what is before you on offer.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Oh boy.....

I thought everybody knew most of the armoured Maultier was fabricated....the top of the hull with all the wrong angles and measurements and the complete tracks and bogies from a T16.

Same with the Marder....I think it's a Swedish chassis which is slightly longer and has two return rollers in stead of one. Superstructure and PAK could be original though.

I have to agree with Hanno though on the "made in germany" lettering. Dunlop had a factory in Germany, that did produce tyres for half tracks and aircraft ....and I believe it said "Dunlup, made in Germany" on the sides.
But Firestone and Good year....mosty likely T16 carrier parts.


Alex

[Douglas Greville]

When I read through the list of complaints what sticks out to me is that most of the things listed would be obvious to most people. Granted you need to know your specifics for things like armour angles. But the anorak detail of whether or not a real Marder has 2 return rollers or one is pretty obvious if you pull up any WW2 photo of a Marder.

A quick google search would reveal sites such as "Surviving Panzers" etc.

We all know that WW2 was now 73 years ago and there weren't many German vehicles survived it. Heck, just look at the Littlefield Panther (which the museum in question would know about) - Jacques had to get a complete new fabrication for the turret. Would they get sniffy that that vehicle is not authentic enough?

There seems to be a lot more to this story than in that article.

To me it has all the makings of a lawyer fest.

If you buy at auction you need to read the fine print and if that fine print includes an escape clause that essentially says the seller guarantees nothing, then buyer beware applies. I cannot count the number of times I have seen
sale lots misdescribed at auction, actually in my experience it is the norm not the exception.

But as to the difference between and G13 and a real Hetzer, 10 minutes spent on the internet would soon educate even the most wet behind the ears armour enthusiast. Then he too can own a vehicle that has to be driven with a view of the world no better than looking out through a letter box slot.

[Jesse Browning]

All at once I had several very interested parties in the Sexton. Granted, its not a $300k sale. Two European buyers were pressing me to give them my bank wiring info, sight unseen. The US Buyer will come to see it next week. Maybe because of my past experiences, I found it UNTHINKABLE that a purchase of that size would be made without inspecting the vehicle. That’s the reason I gave the local buyer first chance. I don’t much care if the vehicle stays in the US. My wife wants me to get a grocery service to deliver for me since I can no longer shop, but I wont even buy groceries without seeing them first.

[Lynn Eades]

Just maybe Jessie, your reputation precedes you, because of which, people are happy to buy sight un-seen.

[Douglas Greville]

Due diligence took me 10 minutes and most of that was waiting for the PDFs to download:

<http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Modified_Foreign_Vehicles.pdf>

Marder III vismod - bottom most listing.

<http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_sWS_Maultier.pdf>

4th from the bottom.

I will point out that I do not know when those documents were created
or the details updated.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

I'm curious what happens now (or has happened?). Does the museum take possession of the vehicles? Do they try and re-sell them? Keep them?

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

I'm curious what happens now (or has happened?). Does the museum take possession of the vehicles? Do they try and re-sell them? Keep them?

The pieces were on the floor when I visited a year ago. The guides were polite and clear that the vehicles were not genuine wartime examples. Considering all the other priorities in the hangar, I don't expect that these will get much attention for a while.

[Jordan Baker]

Seems some at the museum are still quite sour about this. The museum PR guy quite arrogantly told me how complicated international armour purchases are. He wanted to know how my next purchase went. So I told him how my first one went. This is in now way directed to the hard working volunteer group the museum has.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Seems some at the museum are still quite sour about this.

I am sure they are...financially it was a big disaster and I am sure the responses from the classic MV world on their purchases didn't help.

I think your comment on the volunteers at the museum is very well said....I wouldn't be surprised if some volunteers did know about the originality of the vehciles and warned the staff, but were ignored. I know....just speculation, but I have seen this with volunteers at a museum in the past; they were just ignored.

[Jordan Baker]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

I think your comment on the volunteers at the museum is very well said....I wouldn't be surprised if some volunteers did know about the originality of the vehciles and warned the staff, but were ignored. I know....just speculation, but I have seen this with volunteers at a museum in the past; they were just ignored.

Judging by how openly arrogant Tank Museum Guy Jeremy Neal Blowers is that they know best on international armour purchases, it doesn’t surprise me that some of their great volunteers were ignored.

[chris vickery]

Museums are great and all but personally, I’ve found many a hobbyist to be better informed and more knowledgeable on many fronts. I’ve seen some exceptional restorations that make “museum quality” ones look like crap...
Difference between them and us? We spend our own money, they lobby for theirs.