Iltis EIS for equipment: ID of items

[Stuart Fedak]

I have attached two photographs from what I think is from the EIS for the Canadian Bombardier Iltis. These images allegedly came out of the Petawawa area from a training document. One image has more "stuff" than the other.... not sure why. I wish the images were higher resolution, but that is what was shared.

If folks could ID all the items, it would be appreciated. I do like the wooden ice scrapper, which looks like a standard Canadian Tire version from the 80's......

Your thoughts?

Cheers!
Stuart

[rob love]

In photo two I see(front row):
- Shovel (commercial off the shelf rather than the original split wood for the handle)
-Spout, can, flexible (some soldiers told me the other day they can't use the term horsecock anymore, but they can still say f***)
-1/2" sliding T (likely used for drain plug removal, although not on an Iltis)
-first aid kit
-unstucker kit and drums (unstucker plates look like 5/4 ton)
Middle Row
-handle, jack (not an Iltis item but more likely 1/4 ton or 5/4 ton)
-Pouch, tool (underneath the following tools
--tire pressure gauge
--Screwdriver, #3 phillips 10"
--Screwdriver, #2 phillips 4"
--Screwdriver, flat tip, 8"
--Wrench, adjustable, 8"
--Flare kit (safety triangles)
- Chain set, tire
-can, liquid (scepter gas can)-scraper, frost, commercial pattern
Back Row
-Wheel wrench (again, 5/4 ton or possibly M38A1)
-Fire extinguisher, ansul 5 pound ABC (blue)
-axe
-head, pick
handle (helve)
cam net white
cam net green

My money says this photo is for a 5/4 ton.

[rob love]

Now for the Iltis pile (photo 1)
Front Row:
-not sure first canvas item, possibly the tool roll for the iltis. Next to it is the canvas that stows all the cam covers with the tools laid out on top.
-plier, multiple tongue and groove (common names slip joint or water pump pliers)
-wrench adjustable, 8"
-screwdrivers, most likely a flat and a philips
-tire pressure gauge
-two padlocks
-ice scraper
-brush, hogbristle (not sure on that one though...looks a little big)
-above that, the iltis tommy bar, wheel wrench socket, and allen key for drain plugs
-not sure what the square is
-above them appears to be the axe
-extinguisher, 5lb ansul blue ABC
-not sure what the next lump is
-winter cam net
Back Row
-Iltis jack
-Block jack
-Wheel chock
- there is something behind the wheel chock...perhaps a non-standard first aid kit?
-door safety chains
-reflector set
-commercial shovel at top
-the various cam covers for the windshield, headlamps, mirrors...
-can liquid (20l scepter)
Net, camoflauge, green (summer)

Not sure what the large thing is above the shovel.

Of course the Iltis photo has more stuff than the 5/4 ton. You needed a lot more tooling in the hopes you could keep it running. The standardising of the little things like the various cam pouches for mirrors etc add a lot to the checklist. I think I see items on there that are not Iltis checklist, whilel at the same time I don't see the adapter for the old 1/4 ton spare tire.

[rob love]

You are right, it will be the battery cover/winter front.

Other than having a complete shop, hoist and tool sets, what other items would you recommend for a standard Iltis fender box tool set? CAA card?

I would respectfully suggest the following:
1: a cellphone
2: a booklet of matches. The already provided "can, gas and liquid" will provide the other component required for this permanent repair.
3: Bus tokens
4: A large case of hindsight for having bought one in the first place.
5: a link on your smartphone to kijiji.ca with a longterm pre-set search for "M38A1".

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak

OK on the adapter (and correct bolt) for the spare 1/4 ton tire. That should be on the spare tire on the spare tire mount, and should also include five Iltis wheel bolts. Hopefully this item would not get lost too often....

Yes, it was on the spare tire mount...if only the operators and QM stuff realized it. After about 1994, when the Iltis trailer came out, the adapters were redundant and should have been removed from the checklist. Instead, operators and QM staff would re-order it as deficient again and again and again. When it would come in, they would realize they already had it, and throw it away. A year later, a new driver/QM staff and it would happen again. and again.....

I did see the shorter (?) bolts for the original german method of bolting on the spare start showing up in the supply system.. Not sure if that was intentional or just a slip-up.

[Robert Bergeron]

The Iltis is a nice collectible if you like trouble , no parts availability and plastic parts that disintegrate in the sun . And then you would of thought that they got their experience with the Iltis debacle . The powers that be then bought an even worse nightmare : The G Wagon. Top heavy, we lost good men to rollovers . All the while , our neighbours down South had a hard time giving away Hummvees that worked , have spare parts for them , have enough power and come with up armour kits . Oh , i forgot . They even have IED simulators for them . Like a helicopter dunker . You sit in it , you buckle up and then you blow. You have to learn to get out and set up perimeter defence and tend the wounded . Now that’s a real combat set up for the real world. I had never seen so realistic training . In a Iltis you can die hitting a deer crossing in front of you Christ ! Go figure . Iltis = Ross rifle . Canadians setting up Canadian soldiers for failure . We should erase the memory . Nice collectible though . Had 3 at one point . Why , i can’t explain ?

[Wout Jansen]

I have a Canadian Iltis Bombardier since 2009 and, despite a few minor repairs, I still have a lot of fun! Have a lot of attention here in Holland. Also because I have a Canadian flag on it. It is a real collectors item / eye catcher here in Holland!
As far as I know, there is only one Canadian Iltis Bombardier in Holland.
In Belgium a few look a likes.
I can imagine that they did not like the Canadian army, but for me it is a nice vehicle!

Greetings, Wout Jansen from Holland.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak

From what I have seen in the Ottawa region over the past ten years, many of the older 1/4 ton jeeps are always down for mechanical issues and parts seem to be an issue.

Well I can't leave that statement to stand, lest someone using google comes to think an Iltis is actually in any way superior to the Jeep.

I have had my current M38A1 for over 10 years now. Had to replace the alternator once, and a tail lamp bulb. Beyond that, minor servicing only.

Having worked on the Iltis since the time they came in to the CF until just about the time they left, it seemed that not only were we still fixing the same repetitive problems they had when they were new, but time and mileage compounded a lot of the problems. I will give them points for having decent fuel mileage and highway speed, but then so does a Honda. An Iltis won't compare to a Jeep cross country.

[Lynn Eades]

Hey guys, i'm sure you are both "right" It is good to hear the different perspectives and also good to see there are supporters of the variety.
At least Stuart, you don't have the Carrier sickness.

[Robert Bergeron]

Stuart you are right . I lost my objectivity . As i said in the beginning, it is a nice collectible. It goes at 90 KM / hr nicely to get to events, something i can’t do with my GPW . It is more likely 65 Km/ hr . I remember crushing one accidentaly while backing up ( a Iltis ) to the axles with a M113 in Suffield in 1990. The rear sentry was not doing his job but as crew commander, i was responsible for that one ( you could hide 3 Iltis ´s in a M113 dead angles ) . Best day in my service life ( going on my 32 ) . If it had not been for the crew of two occupants that barely made it out just in time to save their lives ( yes you can get out of one pretty fast contrary to appearances ) we would all of started laughing. The poor Capt.( a tanker ) had been struggling all week trying to keep up with my Coy mounted on the 113’s . Only time he could really do it was when we were stopped pulling another winning piece of kit out if the sand with our tracked beauties : The wheeled Cougar tank / trainer / simulator piece of Canadian procurement ingenuity ( no offense meant Terry ) . The M113 were usefull so some were kept ( not cut up to prevent honest collectors from owning one ) re-kitted out , re-named T Lav’s and sent to Nathan Smith were i can attest it saved many lives from small arms and at least one ill sited Claymore . Not IED proof again by any stretch but that is the same story . No Iltis would of done that . The Iltis is the Champion Royale of the collectibles and did the Paris Dakar and was the ennemy of the God fearing and country loving Canadian soldier in any theater of war and even in training . Here is another sad story : A good soldier from a good Regt ( Sher H ) died when his driver went off the shoulder of a snowy country road near Bishopton Qc at 5 Km/ hr . His head was crushed between the ground and the ill devised roll bar . I grant the GPW does not even have a roll bar and hundreds got killed . All told I would buy another one if i found one in good condition . I guess i am a masochist . Sorry for the rant and hijack and congratulations for a nice resto. I am due for my therapy session.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak

Back in the day (1980) the Iltis did perform well in the Paris to Dakar race. I don't remember seeing any M38A1 in that race....

Ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8Ra_q_m4AI

When was the last time you took your M38A1 on a solo 400 km road trip (not in a trailer)?

Cheers!
Stuart

Apples and oranges. So perhaps the Iltis can make the Paris to Dakar race. But I have seen it hooked up to a Jeep trailer 1/2 full of sand and it does not have the guts to move cross country.

Drove my first M38 from Winnipeg to Borden back in March of 1981 to go to my TQ3 veh tech course. Madness.

[charlie fitton]

any mention of that fancy cross shaped wrench with a bent leg?

f

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak

It really is a lot of work as the body tubs are usually rotted from trapped sand and water that was never cleaned out.

This is the kind of stuff I am talking about.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by charlie fitton

any mention of that fancy cross shaped wrench with a bent leg?

f

That was only meant for the removal and replacement of the unstucker kit. The reason operators tried to use it as a wheel wrench was because it looked more like a wheel wrench than the spark plug socket look-a-like that was provided with the vehicle.

Had more than a few MRT stops to help the operators loosen the wheel nuts.

[charlie fitton]

I see shots like these and I want an Iltis

It usually passes...

[Robert Bergeron]

Awesome setup Stuart ! Keep em’ rolling. I am really sincere in my congratulations of your work. Enjoy the Iltis . Be really carefull because it can go way faster than it is safe to do so but you have already figured that out . It is a case where i am too close to the subject . M38’s , m151’s and MB/ GPW ´s were trucks of the generation before me. No bad personal experience with them so i feel more relaxed with them . Cheers , Robert. PS: I have an original , good running good condition 1942 F-15A GS that i got in return of a trade for my three Ilti ´s . One was running , licensed and in general good condition but wrong colour , one was way past restorable and used for spares and the third just had the engine that was restorable . I feel i made a good deal for my purposes and collection. I now concentrate on WW2 Cdn equipment .

[Robert Bergeron]

Stuart you hit it on the spot. You are a good person . Robert