How To: C15a Wire-3 restoration

[Jordan Baker]

Again not much progress. The truck really hasn’t been worked on much in the past two months. Apparently I have way too many other things on the go. However my order of Canadian made seat back springs arrived. I just went with one length for now using a shorter spring to measure by. I’m hoping this will make the back a bit more stiff. With the Wire3 having 5 seats, I gave up trying to find that many useable originals.

[Jordan Baker]

5 sets of new CMP seat canvas. All thanks to a friends wife who loves to sew. She patterned them off of NOS samples I’ve got.

[chris vickery]

Pretty cool Jordan.
When I did my first 12 cab I needed seats done. A family friend's mom suggested that she could do these no problem. When I got them back they were perfect, also from an original sample. I also learned that they were among various items that this lady was tasked with producing during the War- alas her experience was real, and nothing like having a real life Betty the Riveter fall back on old skills...

[Jordan Baker]

Annnnd..... off with the front wheel hubs and braking parts. Everything is being torn down for a full rebuild.

[Jordan Baker]

The Timken bearing number (399A) and the National seal number (35070)

[Bob Carriere]

All parts are available.....

When you re-install the new bearings or he old ones washed..... I used one of the inflator needle attachment that fits on the grease gun...... needle fits into the space of the barrel bearings and the cage.....fills up grease where you really need it and far less messy than doing it by hand. Expect to put in about 2/3 of a fresh tube of grease in the knuckle cavity..... that is when a air powered gun comes in handy.

Cheers

.

[rob love]

If you pull the axle shafts, I suspect you will have a little harder time finding those inner axle shaft seals. I used to be able to buy them back in the early 90s, but they don't seem to be around anymore. I use the inner axle seal and retainer from the M35 (MLVW). You have to turn down the outer diamter of the retainer, but after that you will be able to buy off the shelf seals.



Bob: afraid to get your hands messy with fresh grease? Personally, I find the fresh grease cleans my hands to a better condition than before I start repacking.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by rob love

If you pull the axle shafts, I suspect you will have a little harder time finding those inner axle shaft seals. I used to be able to buy them back in the early 90s, but they don't seem to be around anymore. I use the inner axle seal and retainer from the M35 (MLVW). You have to turn down the outer diamter of the retainer, but after that you will be able to buy off the shelf seals.



Bob: afraid to get your hands messy with fresh grease? Personally, I find the fresh grease cleans my hands to a better condition than before I start repacking.

Agreed on the inner axle seals. Every GM axle I've ever rebuilt required a machined insert to fit the outer diameter and a recess to receive an available seal with the correct inner diameter. While all CMP building is fun, doing these axles, to me anyway, is maybe a little less fun. I'm always ecstatic once I have the whole thing bolted back together (with no spare parts).

[Jordan Baker]

And with power of the internet I managed to get new outer seals, front and rear wheel cylinders and some new brake hose lines ordered.

[Bob Carriere]

...similar to Bruce I had to get an adapter made by a local machine shop to adapt a stock seal that had the right ID but was too small on the OD....once pinned in place by a center punch they should last for years.

[Jordan Baker]

I picked up a parts washing station from Princess Auto the other week. Using the bucket of gasoline in the driveway worked but it wasn’t the best nor could I fit larger parts....unless I got a bigger bucket.

Anyway I modified the basic unit by moving the pump to the bucket below the tank. I also added a quarter turn shut off valve on the drain. This lets me either drain the main tank or fill it up for parts soaking. I also added a piece of filler metal to the original pump switch hole on the side of the unit. To this I mounted the movable nozzle using two brass fittings. This made the nozzle much more secure then originally mounted to the plastic outlet directly on the pump. Weather stripping was added to the inside edge of the top. It does a good job of sealing the unit when the lid is down. Lastly I made up a wooden dolly so it can be easily moved about the shop.

So far it’s worked great and I’ve been using it to clean up my brake drums and backing plates.

The only downside to it is.......the constant running liquid from the nozzle is making me have to pee.

[Bob Carriere]

Nice idea to relocate the pump.... the longer the cleaning fluid gets to sit in your 5 gallon bucket the more the dirt while settle and give you clean fluid the next time you use it as long as your sucker pipe is not too low in the bottom of the bucket.

If you ever intend to use the sheet metal shelf with the provided brackets....make sure you tack weld some 3/4 in. angle on the underside of the shelf otherwise it will bend and sag first time you use it.

On the minus side, at -25 C the cleaning liquid really really gets cold on your hands.....and cold fluid does not clean good....... on certain pieces, i.e. drums, a rinse in gasoline will leave a drier surface. I collect the old gasoline fluid and let it settle in windshield containers..... pour off the top 80% for re use.

All and I mean all combustible fluid, engine oil, tranny oil, parts cleaning fluid, skunky old gasoline, paint thinner, axle oil, gets saved in Lucifer,s bladder and the goo gets recycle in Lucifer for added heat.

Stay warm Jordan!!!!

[Mike Cecil]

Jordan,

Have you balanced the inflow through the nozzle with the outflow to the holding bucket, or are you just pumping from the holding bucket until it is empty? Can't see from the image.

If you have created a complete circuit where inflow = outflow, then you can use a two bucket system to settle the used liquid before re-using it. Outflow into bucket 1 where the larger sediment settles out to the bottom. Bucket 1 connects to bucket 2 via an overflow pipe near the top edge, with a baffle around the overflow pipe inlet. Pump to the nozzle draws liquid from bucket 2. It means you also have twice as much cleaning liquid in the system.

Just a thought.

Mike

[Jordan Baker]

The parts washer is working really well. I thought about adding a magnetic heater to the bottom of the bin but I found them expensive. Plus I’d figured I try it out as it. So far it works well. For the drain I do have a quarter turn valve on it so I can regulate the drain flow into the bucket. Right now I find a lot of the sediment settles into the large main bin and doesn’t drain down into the bucket. So I’m trying out today to fill the yellow bin up and let it sit for a few days. Then drain the fluid into the bucket leaving most of the residue in the yellow bin. Followed up by some paper wipe it all up.

Anyway back onto the truck. The front left hub was completely degreased then sandblasted along with some of the steering components. The small internal bits were simple soaked in the cleaner and will be good to go again. It’s amazing just how much sand gets into everything from the initial sandblasting and why it’s important to take it all apart and clean.

Another find was a fault in one of the bolts that hold the knuckle bearing cap in place. I saw the small crack in the side of the head. However the crack down the length never showed up until I sandblasted it. The crack was still weeping some of the parts cleaner and showed up very well.

[David Herbert]

Jordan,
You have changed a rather naff DIY grade piece of kit into something vastly better, well done !

Mike,
Your two bucket scheme is an excellent idea, especially if the buckets were covered to reduce evaporation and stop things falling in / spillage.

Personally I use a bucket of petrol or for big items, scrub with kerosene (heating oil in the UK) and then hose with lots of water. This also kills weeds in the yard so doing two jobs but obviously this is not very safe / PC nowadays.

David

[Bob Carriere]

Cracks really stand out....even micro hair cracks..... found cracks in the steering arm of the steering box....... not visible until the wash parts had surface dried then where heated up....then the kerosene seeped out....... steering arm has now been replaced.

Magnetic heaters are sometimes found in loose parts at flea market....$40 at PA is a bit much.

Cheers

[Jordan Baker]

The front drums and brake pad shoes were dropped off at the shop a few days ago for re-lining and removing the groves from the drums.

In the meantime I removed the tie rod after a bit of work. The ends have been taken apart and eventually the rod itself will be blasted and painted. One thing I have noticed is that I seem to be missing one of the large coiled springs for the tie rod. Now I have to try and find one. Does anyone know if it crosses over to another GM part from the period?

[Bob Carriere]

... you have the early ones that can be taken apart. I have only seen one set and mine are slightly different. I did rebuild mine.... salvage parts from a spare axle and make yourself thick leather washers to keep the grease in. If you can't find a spring will send you one.

The most late popular ball joints are sealed units........ make sure your tie rod is not bent....... I had one straight one from 4 axles.......

Do not sand blast the moving parts where they rub steel on steel. I used very thick grease intended for open gears in mine to negate any wear.

Enjoy the mess.

Do you have a cotter pin on the bottom..... can I see the rest of the body of the tie rod???



PSSSSS I bobbed somewhere.......

[Bob Carriere]

My axle from the ca 11 had the early built R-Zeppa axle U-Joint maybe that's why.

I have a real ball inside..... very worn they were cleaned and reassembled with very thick agricultural grease meant for open gears.

Make sure your tie rod is straight..... I found one out of the four I had were bent.

DO NOT sandblast the rubbing/bearing surface of the central parts.

If you need a spring I have some old spares....not aware of new ones and have never been able to find a civvy equivalent to the tie rods on Ebay or special suppliers ...

Enjoy the mess.

PS.... mine were tricky to reassemble with that little spring that fits the two holes in each halves.

[Jordan Baker]

Here are some more pictures of my tie rod. It matches what is in MB-C2 and the C15A-04 Illustrated parts book.

I’m all aware of the cautions for sandblasting certain bits. They will be covered.

I’ll take you up on that offer for the spring. Thanks very much.

[Bob Carriere]

I wonder when and where the solid tie rod ends came into the scene......

Got your PM with your address will try to mail it tomorrow. Not due for Grimsby until mid March. The spring is used with NO warrantee so no charge. If we meet at the OMVA in the Spring will have a beer.

Cheers

[Jordan Baker]

Thanks. Love the MLU community. No warranty....no worries I’ll just take it to my nearest GM dealership and berate the parts counter guy until he produces one from the back.

[Bob Carriere]

Going to the PO to mail.........

Had to dig out the axle from the snow but the tie rod nut came off easy..... 3 other axles have no spring?????

Did not even wash them.....

Cheers

[Jordan Baker]

Spent the morning in the shop today. It was finally warmish enough to go out and not have freezing cold tools. Anyway I managed to make up the fromt brake lines. I was using the original hoses to make sure all the new lines match up just fine. Tomorrow’s plan is to work on the rear lines.

One question.... is the long line that goes from the master cylinder to the back all one piece? The ones I pulled off the truck were two but I believe they were made up at some point from off the shelf premade ones.

[Bob Carriere]

......found near impossible to do in one piece using SS....so I cut and installed a joint after the t case cross member.

Bob C.

[Grant Bowker]

To amplify Bob's comments on stainless, we were using line that came straight. We've since found SS in coils that was easier to form (nowhere near cooked spaghetti nor like old dry spaghetti). Straighten from the coil as you go, but then you are forming the curves on the fly and would have to do the flares (at least some of them) on the truck (and stainless doesn't always flare nicely, particularly with cheap tools). I did the 15cwt trailer with copper-nickel line and it did form nicely to follow the frame contour, through cross-members and flare on the trailer

[rob love]

Personally, I think stainless is a bit of an extravagance. Regular bundy line will outlast most of us.

I have been lucky in that I have found a couple of the kent-moore J8051 double flaring kits at surplus stores over the years. They would be very expensive to buy at retail, and do a fantastic job of brakelines and fuel lines. They were the standard in all the military shops when I was younger, but now with the metric lines, they have kind of fallen out of favour.

[Grant Bowker]

My thought on stainless was that, yes it does cost more but in the big scheme of the cost of restoring a complete vehicle I could live with the extra and the line would be unlikely to deteriorate either inward or outward (even if I wasn't as diligent as ideal about flushing the fluid to eliminate accumulated moisture). It does come down to personal choice, bundy, conifer, stainless - all have merits/advantages.
I think everyone has a favorite brake line flaring tool and a corresponding hated one. The tool I used on the stainless lines is sold by Eastwood and many others. I have never had it do an unusable or leaky flare. Call it luck, lack of operator skill with the other tools used... your choice. It is very much intended to be used clamped in a vice - not an on-vehicle tool although there are tools that use similar dies and should work on vehicle. I did think it extravagant to spend that much on a single purpose and rarely used tool but certainly appreciate the lack of aggravation doing a flare, discovering it is poor, cutting it off, redoing (maybe more than once), discovering the line is now too short to fit..... One observation about this style of tool compared to the "standard" bar clamp and screwdown flaring die is that it does require a bit more distance between the flare and the last bend in the line if the line is being bent before flaring.

[Jordan Baker]

Thanks all for the discussion and comments. I’m using the nickel copper line so it’s pretty flexible. I did pickup one of those brake flaring tools as pictured by Grant. I also picked up the straightening tool Eastwood sells. I have to say that it does a great job of taking the coiled line and making it very straight. The tool pictured, although pricey, to me it was worth it. It is very easy to use and does great flares with little effort.

As for my fuel line, I’m going to try and do a single piece for going to the back. I feel that the nickel copper line will be flexible enough to get it all in place.

[Jordan Baker]

Is this the correct route for the long line to the rear? Would the large holes in the cross members have the felt washers in them? Lastly would there be mounting clips along the way at a few of the bolt holes in the frame?