Quebec Transport Ministry + MV owners

[Dave D.]

Originally Posted by Robin Craig

Dave D,

Please understand that this issue is solely aimed at owners of vehicles resident in Quebec. If you reside outside and your vehicle if registered outside, drive on.

You are free to drive what you want. Have your ownership and insurance on hand as always, ignore the stupidity and enjoy your vehicle and the countryside.

Common sense is the name of the game, you have nothing to be perturbed about.

Perturbed is soft. It's all the other words that go along with outraged like strontium, cesium and melt down. When Quebec residents can roll in their MV's again, the cooling can begin.

It's not just the oppression of fellow Canadians that is the driver. We had plans, big plans.

We have nation wide projects in draft that could take the entire historical fleet and those willing to help. Canada just passed a 70th anniversary on August 29th and we want to show what Canada did in the 5 years after the Soviet Union tested their first nuclear device. We have 5 years to complete the project for a reveal for the 75th and it can only be done with national support.

The first two thousand sites are already mapped out across Canada and we need local MV's to help photo-document their area. We're left in limbo wondering what our next step is so the kettle is boiling.

It's time sensitive because our history continues to go away. It's ok that it does, we just want a visual record before it's all gone. Rolling Historical Military Vehicles are fantastic reminders of how things once were. I'm waiting for a response from the transportation minister for a date when we can all hit the highway again. Until then, the wrecking ball is just warming up.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

I think there's a lot of local interpretation by our government friends. I recall having a frustrating conversation with one in Ontario a number of years ago who insisted all military vehicles were commercial and all the rules applying to commercial vehicles applied to them. Antique status was in addition to, and not instead of, commercial. What that meant in practice was antique status got you nothing as all the commercial rules (weight, lighting, inspection) prevailed. This same guy also told me, as an aside, that "those 6 wheel army boat vehicles will never get licenced on 'my' roads". He of course meant DUKWs and I didn't break the news to him some already were.

To answer you question however, I'm not aware of any distinction for military vehicles in Ontario. There may be 'point of sale' restrictions for some of the more recent surplus ones but that would have nothing to do with provincial legislation or regulations.

Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak

I have been asked by the folks in Quebec who are dealing with the SAAQ, to inquire about Military Vehicle inspection criteria across Canada in the various provinces/territories:

Are there any specific pieces of legislation or inspection criteria that apply to Military Vehcles and to Historic Military Vehicles?

The SAAQ has claimed that other provinces (the exact provinces not stated) have specific inspection criteria for Military vehicles.

FACT or Fiction:

Is this fact/ fiction and links to various legislation and criteria.

When military vehicles are registered as on road for regular use, is there a difference in the annual inspection critaria? For example, a large truck in Ontario requires an annual safety, whereas if registered as a Historic Vehicle, this annual inspection requirement is dropped.

Your thoughts?

Stuart

[maple_leaf_eh]

I'll tell Stuart my stories privately.

[chris vickery]

Do we really want to beat the bushes and stir up the proverbial pot for the rest of us here in Canada? Let the SAAQ do their own research when it comes to what other jurisdictions do. Here in Ontario anything in excess of 35 years old becomes eligible as an antique vehicle regardless of its prior use or designation. We need not give the bureaucrats anymore reason to open up inquiries to create pet projects that can potentially cause a whole pile of trouble. Let sleeping dogs lay.

[Dave D.]

Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak

I have been asked by the folks in Quebec who are dealing with the SAAQ, to inquire about Military Vehicle inspection criteria across Canada in the various provinces/territories:

Are there any specific pieces of legislation or inspection criteria that apply to Military Vehcles and to Historic Military Vehicles?

The SAAQ has claimed that other provinces (the exact provinces not stated) have specific inspection criteria for Military vehicles.

FACT or Fiction:

Is this fact/ fiction and links to various legislation and criteria.

When military vehicles are registered as on road for regular use, is there a difference in the annual inspection critaria? For example, a large truck in Ontario requires an annual safety, whereas if registered as a Historic Vehicle, this annual inspection requirement is dropped.

Your thoughts?

Stuart

Alberta freedom.

Sovereign General insured my first MV, the 1986 Chev 3/4 ton M1010 for commercial use. The inspection ensured all components were working. Lights, horn, e-brake etc. They check for leaks, sweat on brake lines, loose components 'still within safety tolerances', tire tread, windshield washer etc.

No further inspections were required from 2010 to 2017ish when I sold it.

Quebec could easily look up the various levels of mechanical inspection forms throughout the provinces. We could even get them a contact with the Judges Advocate Group and the Privy Council if they need legal advice. Here's a B.C. form that was super easy to find.
https://www.th.gov.bc.ca/CVSE/vehicl...PDF/MV3199.pdf

If SAAQ's 'objective' is enabling citizens to operate historical vehicles on public roads safely, historical vehicle collectors should help design the enabling objectives.

I had the easiest process with the 6x6 and as a responsible Canadian citizen, I'm almost certain this is the way it should go.
When I re-built the 1956 M135 we photo documented the process. I sent the pictures to Thomas Schindler Green insurance broker ...now intact insurance.....and they sent me pink cards. "NO INSPECTION REQUIRED".

Say what? Insured without an inspection? The insurance company weighs their risk....adds an ethical/ moral/ historical vehicle file....and 'enabled' this collector to get history on public streets. That was 2012 to 2017.

If Quebec is asking for a design to the new policies, take the word "military" out of any definition and add the word "automobile" or "vehicle".

Catastrophic components from tires to brakes and steering can be inspected after replacement on a historical vehicle but SAAQ can never remove all liability by an inspection process. They will always be jointly liable for putting any vehicle on the road. They just need to get on with it. Inspecting vehicles to make them eligible for insurance doesn't stop a new Toyota throttle from sticking or a Ford truck from burning up and it didn't stop Pintos from exploding.

The bus, suburban and even the Volks Wagon could be considered a military vehicle. The 2 ton international in the 50's and these days, Toyota Tercel can be seen on military bases with military plates.

The bus inspection went the same as all the others. Does the horn work? Yes.
Go drive it, have fun. Call home if you're going to be late.

Alberta Inspection info
https://ama.ab.ca/knowledge-base/art...pection-centre
https://ama.ab.ca/knowledge-base/art...pection-centre

Credit to our Canadian Civil Defence Museum and Archive for the pictures.

[Ed Landstrom]

When the company that carried my antique auto insurance was sold, I got a letter from the new company saying that they could no longer insure my Ferret and half-track because they didn't know what to call them. They didn't "seem to fit any of their classifications". My broker managed to add the half-track to my farm policy as a "White tractor". That company asked for pictures, and the difference between a farm tractor and artillery tractor didn't bother them. They also added my Bren carrier as a "Ford tractor". He offered to look for a creative way of insuring the Ferret, but I decided not to bother. It only goes to shows on a float now.

[rob love]

Manitoba in no way differentiates between regular vehicles and military vehicles. However, when they inspect, they do require that whatever safety features were mandated and would be on a civilian equivalent for that model year would be on the military equivalent (ie CJ5/M38A1).

In Manitoba, you only require one safety inspection for a vehicle under 10,000 pounds. That inspection is required before the initial registration by a new owner or importation into the province and is valid for one year in case the vehicle gets re-sold. That is for regular plates or collectors plates. Regular plates can be insured to drive to work, collectors plates are not normally driven to work. Generally, there is no need for a second inspection unless you have had a major accident or event. Otherwise, no annual inspections, and no emissions testing.

Vehicles over 10K require annual inspections, unless for recreational use. The addition of any of two items (bed, sink, stove, and there might be a few others) constitute recreation vehicle.

Then we have the antique plates. No safety required (including for over 10K vehicles), vehicles have to be over 25 years. Inexpensive, but very limited on what you can do with it. Repair shops, parades and displays is it.

The only other legislation we have that really effects military vehicles is the armour legislation, meant for the gangs and drugs using body armour and up-armouring their vehicles. You need a $100 permit to possess these items, however there is an exemption for historic military vehicles in possession of their owners.

Our dept of transport guys were aware of the MLVWs, and that they did not meet some of the requirements for highway certification in the years they were introduced. The guy I was talking to indicated that there were some in the province that had the necessary work done to be in compliance and safetied. Just as often though, the inspection station does not apply all those criteria, and is more worried about the operation of the brakes and lights being in order rather than some of the design elements.

Good luck to the Quebec guys.

[Robin Craig]

Report here, may be available in other languages elsewhere.

https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/qu...JOX8GoGXlsX0-E

[Dave D.]

Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak

I have been asked by the folks in Quebec who are dealing with the SAAQ, to inquire about Military Vehicle inspection criteria across Canada in the various provinces/territories:

Are there any specific pieces of legislation or inspection criteria that apply to Military Vehcles and to Historic Military Vehicles?

The SAAQ has claimed that other provinces (the exact provinces not stated) have specific inspection criteria for Military vehicles.

FACT or Fiction:

Is this fact/ fiction and links to various legislation and criteria.

When military vehicles are registered as on road for regular use, is there a difference in the annual inspection criteria? For example, a large truck in Ontario requires an annual safety, whereas if registered as a Historic Vehicle, this annual inspection requirement is dropped.

Your thoughts?

Stuart

Thanks for all the hard work on this Stuart.

Is there anything else we can do that will show the Quebec lads our support?

I don't get a lot of time for the facebook crew but I did see mention that the minister asked the first group not to go to the media.....or there will be consequences.

I also saw a letter that mentioned Sept. 21 as the day a decision will be made.

We're already working on a real cool story that has a lot to do with Quebec and will involve a press release. It's all about history, culture, defence, finance, the official secrets act, the privy council, construction, transportation, planning, communications, media, education, art, policing, emergency management, fire couplers and the military take over of Civil Defence in the 1960's.

Quebec has a fascinating story with a nuclear beginning. The Transportation Minister is responsible for how the story ends and Sept. 21 is pushing our deadline.....but we'll wait.

We are asking for it to end like this.

In 2019, the Province of Quebec visited the option of banning private citizens from driving military vehicles on public road roads. These previously used vehicles have been auctioned off by the federal government for revenue generating purposes. They are the same vehicles that carried Canadians through WW11, supported our Peacekeeping and Cold War efforts from the 50's to today and most recently vehicles that carried our families into the middle east. Once purchased by private individuals or companies, the vehicles would be used for everything from hauling poatoes to hauling the Commander of the Canadian Army in hometown parades.

When the minister was asked why he reinstated licenses back to the same vehicles that brought Canada to one of the best places to be on the planet, his reply was, "Because it's 2019".