Ford GP (series 1) slow build

[Mike Cecil]

Thanks Lionel .... it has been a long time since I first got the vehicle, hasn't it? Still, making progress at a pace I enjoy, so no problem.

Mike, yes, the GP has what is in effect a 9N tractor engine but with some important differences. The 9N is a sleeved engine, whereas the GP is not. But the bore is 3-1/16 which you'll remember is the same as the 85bhp V8 sidevalve, so 9T pistons and rings, available up to 60thou o/s, fit nicely. The block is capable of being bored out to 60 thou o/s, and those 4 ring pistons and ring sets are available. When I pulled the engine down, that's what I found: 9T, 4 ring pistons had been fitted (and I have been recently told, were listed as a change to the GP parts list in 1943, via a respondent on the G503 forum). Other than that, main & big ends, cam shaft bearings, valves, gaskets etc are all 9N and readily available. It has those horrible Ford split valve guides and little horse-shoe keepers, and was originally equipped with non-adjustable tappets, but adjustable tappets are available.

The peripherals are also different: the tractor engine has a front mounted distributor/coil combination with no vacuum advance, whereas the GP has a right angle drive and conventional distributor (the coil is mounted on the firewall). The exhaust/inlet manifold is a downdraught, whereas the tractor is updraught, and the carbie is a Holley. So like the GP in general, some parts are easy to get, and some parts are very difficult and others are outrageously expensive: an original Holley carbie has sold for over $8,000 US!!

Mike

[Mike K]

So you will be looking for eight Johnson adjustable valve lifters ?

So a tractor engine block will not change over... annoying for GP restorers !

[Mike Cecil]

I think the block will change over, but it will be sleeved and won't have that magic 'GP' cast into the block.

It's the peripherals that make the difference: you can't just take a 9N from a tractor, you have to transfer all the peripherals to make it into a GP engine.

The valve guides are available as part of an overhaul kit from David Tractor at a pretty reasonable price: http://store.ford8n.net/product.php?xProd=6315

Mike

[Lynn Eades]

Mike, the Ford V8 went over to one piece guides. If you are doing all new valves
(stainless?) then that would be the way to go. Do they have hard seats?(inserts) Then you don't have issues with fuel lacking the lead.
I assume the v8 bits interchange?

[Mike Cecil]

All part of the investigation, Lynn. The post above has a link to Davis Tractor who are just one of many who supply an overhaul kit which includes one-piece guides, but you'll see that certain other parts such as seats are purchased separately.

Started wrestling with those *7%$#@ horse shoe clips yesterday, after the valve spring compressor arrived from Northern Tool.

Mike

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Started wrestling with those *7%$#@ horse shoe clips yesterday, after the valve spring compressor arrived from Northern Tool.

Mike

There was also a special too available , this was for loosening really stuck valve guides . Ryans in Melbourne used to sell the tool. It was a length of 5/16" rod bored out one end, the bored end had a slot machined into it , the rod was bent into a odd shape, you slid the tool around the valve head , the bored end would fit around the valve stem, and a hammer blow on the tool would force the guide loose . I did have one, I loaned it to A. Browne .

[Mike Cecil]

Mike,

Yes, had one too .... but it and the valve guide bar that was also produced for the Ford valve system went in the clearing sale we had just before we left for the USA. I had not intended to get back onto restoration, so all sorts of things were sold that in hindsight, I could use now! NOS Ford dash gauges, special tools (I wonder if the recipient ever worked out what it was for), wheel nut spanner/wrenches and bar, a GP marked wheel bearing tube spanner/wrench, and so on....

The 'Yass Boys' did well from that haul, I think!

Still, no regrets: it has worked out well for us.

I'll be replacing the valves anyway, so may resort to cutting off the heads to give access to the valve guide from above.

Mike

[Mike Cecil]

GP8920 is now at the rolling chassis stage - engine built except for the head being bolted down and a few more peripherals. New pistons/rings/valves/valve guides/adjustable lifters/bearings/oil pump/bearings - should be good to go.

T/case, gearbox etc all bolted together and the whole lot installed into the chassis. A bit more fitting out and it will be ready to test-fire the engine.

Brake system completed and clutch linkages all connected.

The body has been painted and I've started to install the wiring loom, electricals, and the dash components. The rear locker lids and catches are installed as are the rear lights, reflectors, spare tyre carrier, and so on - the add-ons that wont get in the way of the lifting sling when it comes time to lift the body onto the chassis. The body is on horses under the overhead gantry, so when it comes time to drop it onto the chassis, it's a simple lift, push sideways and drop gently into place on the chassis (yea, I know ... simple in theory!)

The instrument panel has been restored - it was in very ordinary condition, so was pulled apart, sandblasted, painted green outside/white inside, re-painted bronze/gold face, red pin-striping, and the red on the speedo face speed indicators and the white speedo needle. Speedo tested. A NOS set of gauges topped it off. Now re-assembled and ready to connect up the wiring before placing into the dash panel.

Slowly, slowly ....

Making a 'cross border raid' sometime soon, to California: more about that later .....

Mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Lionelgee

G'day Mike,

What was lost has now been found!

Try this ... Accessed 23rd of June 2016 The first thread started in 2013 http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...801#post180801

There is a second thread http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...662#post211662

Maybe a very kind moderator could link it all back together?

Lionel.

Done!

Hanno

[Mike Cecil]

Resulted in this 1944 MB joining the GP in the garage/workshop. Starts, runs, drives, stops, so will do 'as is' for now.

2,000 miles in 32 hours driving time over 4 days: rain, rain and even some snow for most of the way.

Mike

[Mike K]

The paint on the GP chassis . Can you tell us its origin ? Looks to be a matt finish . Enamel ?

is it the Gillespie stuff ? Have you painted the body with the same paint ?

[Mike Cecil]

The undercoat was Rustoleum for rusty metal. Despite being sandblasted, there is always a delay in getting the undercoat on and oxidation starts, hence the choice of the 'for rusty metal' finish. It is a very durable coating.

The top coat is the early war US green from RAPCO, who I believe source their paint from Gillespie. Comes in either 1 gallon cans or very handy spray cans for doing smaller parts. The finish is more like a satin than a true matt finish, which makes maintenance that much easier.

The white and gold used for the instrument panel were also Rustoleum, and the red was a modeler's enamel paint by Testors.

All are enamel coatings.

Mike

[Mike K]

Ah OK . There are many types of undercoatings available these days , the POR stuff is good but expensive . I have heard of Rustoleum, I think it's available here. The sandblaster here uses red oxide .

The neighbour down the road put me onto something in the local hardware " FERRONITE" . It was developed for the marine industry and it is made in QLD . The active ingredient is tannic acid , from vegetable matter. The theory is: the acid draws out the oxides in the rust and the rusty steel surface ends up a blackish colour. It is not cheap to buy at 38 bucks a litre. The base is a polimer I think , or something similar.

The GP is looking very nice . Who is building the new tubs ?

[Mike Cecil]

Tub is by Joe's Motor Pool, UK. It's a first-class job.

You can see the example here (Rory is Joe's North American GP parts re-seller)

http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php...5ea73b15e11500

Mike

[Jim Gilmore]

Mike,

Great photos....looks very nice!

You listed the Vehicle number as GP-8920 and the Date of Delivery as March, 1941....

Does your main data plate have a day as well?

Ford motor Co. records show the original motor GP-8920 as being assembled on March 17, 1941. I would guess the DoD to be March 20 or 21.......am I close?

Did you sand the hood and rear panel down to see if there was still a USA number? If so, can you share it with us?

Jim Gilmore

Jim Thorpe, PA. USA

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Jim,

Venturing over to the light (CMP) side from G503!!

In short, the original data plate was long gone, and no number presented itself on the hood or original body so the 'March 41' date was as close as I could come from the available on-line data. I'll have to wrestle with deciding what hood number it should have: any suggestions?

Been a while since I updated, been busy completing a bunch of book text and articles. So here goes:

Had a major setback with the engine , which meant removal, a complete tear-down and line-bore of the main bearing caps, then re-assembly. Test run on an engine test stand, then re-assembly to the transmission, etc. Tested all the gear train during static running, clutch adjustment and so on, before mounting the body tub. Also discovered my expensive reproduction GP fan belts were just standard Mitsubishi belts with the maker's details covered in black ink with a red GP part number stenciled on - which all rubbed off in no time. Oh well, live and learn: it still fits.

Connecting and adjusting the steering is next, then connecting the accelerator and choke links. I'll also complete the wiring and dash installation before mounting the seats, fuel tank, and so on - much easier to access under the dash with an un-cluttered body. Purchased a roll of thin insertion rubber to make floor mats for both vehicles - it helps preserve the paintwork from usage scuffs and scrapes.

Current status can be seen in the images, along with its 'stable mate', the now-registered '44 Willys MB 'recreation drive'. Having timber walls in the workshop means I can 'store' panels and parts up high, safely out of the way, until it is time to install them - you can see the transmission cover and engine bay side panels wrapped in plastic high up on the wall to the right of the overhead gantry.


Mike

[Jim Gilmore]

Too bad the data plate was missing.....

As for a DoD.....

Ford motor Co. records show the original motor GP-8920 as being assembled on March 17, 1941. I would guess the DoD to be March 20 or 21, 1941.

Motors were usually produced 3 working days before being used in the assembly line.

For a USA number ...It would be somewhere between W-2017810 ( DoD 3/18) to W-2017893 ( DoD 3/21)

Hope this helps....

Jim Gilmore

Jim Thorpe, PA.

[Mike Cecil]

Thanks, Jim, I appreciate the data as I am well aware of the amount of effort that goes into compiling it in the first place.

Regards

Mike

[Mike Cecil]

My progress on the Ford GP is at a leisurely pace. A couple of views of where it is up to.

The GP hangs from the overhead crane as I had to dismantle part of the front suspension to take examples of the bush and pin to the machinist to have a few sets made for a friend in the UK, and a set of bushes for another GP restorer who lives nearby. Like me, he had purchased a set of pins & bushes from Australia, and now finds the bushes don't fit - the outer diameter is too large for the suspension hangers and the inside diameter is much too sloppy on the pins. The ones I have had made locally are a 'push fit' with a couple of thou clearance. They are nice and tight upon assembly. This time I'll have an extra pin and bush made to keep as the reference, for the next time a friend wants a set made.

I'm sure we have all been down this path: you know you purchased an item, and now it is time to install it, it cannot be found! I have a carbie air horn, which is a casting on the GP, somewhere nice and safe. Too safe, as I don't seem to be able to locate it! I'm sure it will turn up, probably after I buy another to replace it.

The lighting system worked fine when I installed it, but the light switch seems to have developed a fault so has to come out. Two steps forward, one step back!

Mike

[Peter Duggan]

Mike,

Nice looking jeep. Had to comment, I can can well relate to your comment "one step forward, one step back". It's become my personal motto.

Peter

[Mike Cecil]

The Ford GP serial 8920 reached another milestone last evening when I took it for a short drive along our nice quiet street. Krystii made a couple of videos with her i-pad, but they are way too large to post here, so you'll just have to see the stills instead.

Not a perfect job, and a long way to go yet with many small details to be attended to (fitting nomenclature plates, bleeding& adjusting brakes, tucking up and securing wiring, etc etc - you all know the drill!). The hood/bonnet & windshield/windscreen assembly are headed to Indianapolis, Indiana for some restorative work. I don't expect to see those again until next year. The canvas set is by Beachwood Canvas - Dan's team does an excellent job and worth the money. The set I have on the Willys MB (in the background) is also great - the canopy does not 'flap' at 45 mph.

The big red switch visible on the left of the engine bay is a temp battery isolating switch - always use one in a handy position during the resto, then move it to a more discreet/less accessible position upon completion.

And the carbie air horn I mentioned in the previous post .... I purchased another, still cannot find the first one!! Fits nicely on the (repro) Holley 847D carbie.

Mike

[jack neville]

What did you do with the original body Mike?

[Mike Cecil]

Jack,

The two bodies I had, plus a spare chassis and sundry other parts, went to the Netherlands.

Mike

[Mike K]

That is looking nice

Just last week, I had a lookover a GP being restored just Nth of Melbourne . The chassis nr. is the 6th one made. The tub was rebuilt by Simon A , and it looks a million dollars . Interesting , I discovered the GP that was in Melbourne in the early/mid 70's now lives up near Tumut in NSW , its had a resto of sorts .

[Mike Cecil]

Thanks Mike. The hood and windscreen are not due back until May 2020, so nothing much will change visually between now and then, but I have lots of the less obvious still to do.

8506? Is that owned by JH? Do you have any images?

There are some really odd little differences between the earliest ones, and those built later, such as the route of the radiator overflow.

The first GP built is (8501) owned by a friend of mine, and another has 8546: both exhibit little differences. Mine, 8920, is well into the series 1 production of 1500, so is more 'standardised'.

Mike

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

8506? Is that owned by JH? Do you have any images?




Mike

Yes, the chassis has had extensive repairs , it looks excellent now, a skilled blacksmith spent hours realigning everything. Will take some pics next visit .

[Mike Cecil]

Gents,

Hood and Windshield (it is an American vehicle, after all ...) getting some TLC in Indiana. Both were in reasonable condition, but still needed some expert attention, including re-skinning the lower windshield frame panel, welding extraneous holes, removing lots of little dings, and so on.

Won't see these until next year when I drive there to pick up the GPW project (2,000 miles each way). Going to time it to coincide with the MVPA Convention in Findlay OH.

Enjoy.

Mike

[Mike Cecil]

The collection of the restored hood (bonnet) and windscreen (windshield) is on hold for obvious reasons. The trip to Indiana to collect them and the next project, a late 1942 Ford GPW, has to wait until all the restrictions are eased. Hopefully, later in the year ...

In the meantime, the Ford GP waits in the corner of the workshop, usually covered with a cotton cloth to keep the dust off. Gets a short run every so often to keep everything functional.

Mike

[Wayne Hingley]

Looks great Mike. Its an unfortunate interruption to collecting the final parts, but Im sure you will find an opportunity to travel out to Indiana soon.

[Mike Cecil]

The restored windshield frame and hood have finally arrived from Indiana, and I've fitted them to the GP. Also fitted the Burco fittings for the canopy and erected the canopy in place. It has been folded up under the passenger seat since arriving from Beachwood Canvas. Having had my head hammered by the flapping canvas of a Willys MA hood during a rainy trip in Normandy a few years ago, I can see why the MB/GPW hood was much improved over the canopies that equipped the prototypes! I think the GP canopy will live most of its life under the seat, but for now, it remains erected, the whole vehicle looking pretty good.

The side doors have stud fittings that needed three hands to install, and I only have two clumsy ones, so I made a tool from a G clamp to splay the centre stud while holding the inside face flat and tight against the sheet metal. Seems to work well, so that is the 'in progress' job at the moment.

The Wusty Welic Ford GPW project is just visible in the background.

Mike