Centurion Arrives in BC

[rob love]

I had a look on Shelldrakes list of Nova Scotia monuments, and by blowing up the photo of what I believe to be this tank, the CFR appears to be 52-81190

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by rob love

I had a look on Shelldrakes list of Nova Scotia monuments, and by blowing up the photo of what I believe to be this tank, the CFR appears to be 52-81190

According to ramtank.ca there was no CFR 52-81190 but there was 52-81090 which I think that CFR actually is. The tank was a part of the second group of Centurions purchased all of which were sent to Canada.

Did anyone ever get a photograph of the actual vehicle?

Cheers,
Dan.

[Ed Storey]

Much like media and enthusiast reports, the trouble with CFRs painted on gate guardian vehicles is you can never be too sure about their accuracy. Perhaps the vehicle still has its brass data plate mounted on the inside of the hull as this will have both the CFR and the British WD number.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Dan Martel

According to ramtank.ca there was no CFR 52-81190 but there was 52-81090 which I think that CFR actually is. The tank was a part of the second group of Centurions purchased all of which were sent to Canada.

Did anyone ever get a photograph of the actual vehicle?

Cheers,
Dan.

There is a fair gap between the two "ones" in the CFR, but the second one does not have the oval shape of the other zero on the photo. But it may well be what Ed says, that somebody interpreted the numbers incorrectly and applied them.



Did they stamp the CFRs on the hulls of the Centurions like they did to the ferrets or the M series vehicles? I can't check because the only centurions near me are the swiss cheese examples that are on the ranges.



The news story mentioned that this tank was dropped at the legion in time for remembrance day. Is that it's permanent location or is it heading elsewhere?

[Dan Martel]

Interesting armoured formation tactical sign on the skirt. The circle represents the third or 'C' squadron of a regiment. During the 70's and before the arrival of the Leopards, the armoured squadron at Gagetown was 'C' 8 CH. I wonder if that's where this tank came from?

Centurion BC 2019 11 10 (2).jpg

[Harry Moon]

While i don't know the pre range target history of this other than it is a mark that the British used. This centurian was pulled off of a range in Alberta in the late 70's by Vic Stephenson with 15th Field. They got it running but they stored it at the Seaforth's armoury on Burrard street. Unbeknown to vic and 15th field, the seaforths arranged something and in a trade it was sent to Cornwallis to be a gate guardian. Created quite a stir when it was discovered it had already been shipped out by rail. Cornwallis closed it stayed with a museum then got parcelled out to storage. It came up for availability a while ago and its to their credit they got CN to make an event of moving it here. After a cosmetic preparation it will be placed on an already prepared pad at the Aldergrove war Memorial on Fraser Highway.

[Perry Kitson]

Here is a photo of the Centurion in question, with ROF serial numbers. I photographed this tank two years ago while visiting the former CFB Cornwallis, where it has sat for some time until now. There was a plaque attached to the left rear side skirt, if still there, it may state when this tank was "placed" at Cornwallis.

[Ed Storey]

I have been looking over my list of Canadian CFRs and there was a Centurion Mk 5 53-81190 but I do not have its' particular WD No. The joy with CFRs is that even though the system is set up with the first two digits being the year and the last five being unique to a particular vehicle, I have not yet in over a decade of study seen the last five numbers being used twice at the same time. So for example I have not encountered say 52-81190 and a 53-81190 being used at the same time. Generally what happens is once a CFR is discontinued then the last five can then be reissued to another vehicle with a different year and I have seen this occur with quite a few of the older CFRs, such as those to the M37CDNs, which were reissued to newer model vehicles. Unfortunately once the number is reissued the data for the older vehicle is not retained which makes study and recording very difficult.

In the case of British manufactured AFVs, like the Ferret and the Centurion, Canada recorded the War Department Number as a form of serial number. The WD number consisted of two numbers/two letters/two numbers and I must admit am not sure how the British allocation worked for particular vehicle types although I do know that WD No. is used on the licence plates of British military vehicles. As I stated in an earlier post, the WD No. along with the CFR was stamped into a brass plaque which was mounted inside the hull of the AFV. Perhaps like the Ferret the CFR was also stamped somewhere on the hull.

My records correlating Centurion CFRs to WD Nos is very much a patchwork with more holes then patches but I can report that the nearest Centurion to 53-81190 in which I have most of the data; Centurion Mk 5 53-81185 was listed with a WD No. as 16 BA 14. Of course just to make the whole process more challenging, where I do have a consecutive series of CFRs with corresponding WD Nos., the WD Nos. are out of sequence.

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by Perry Kitson

Here is a photo of the Centurion in question, with ROF serial numbers.

I posted this tank's ROF serial number on another site to see if anyone might have been able to provide a rundown of its service history. While no one has, I was referred to the Tank Museum at Bovington. For a small fee it appears they will provide a vehicle history card for those who request it. The request page can be found here.

Anyone with a little spare cash will be able to see if the tank went to Korea or not, assuming it's the same tank.

Cheers,
Dan.

[Aide Memoire]

Originally Posted by Dan Martel

Interesting armoured formation tactical sign on the skirt. The circle represents the third or 'C' squadron of a regiment. During the 70's and before the arrival of the Leopards, the armoured squadron at Gagetown was 'C' 8 CH. I wonder if that's where this tank came from?

Attachment 110177

Anecdotally...Gagetown apparently had it before Cornwallis got it, which might explain that. Subject to confirmation.