Stuart VI Recce (was: Stuart Recce replacement)

[lssah2025]

Originally Posted by Neil Ashley

Hanno

The machine gun ring whilst sensible is probably going a bit further than most of the improvised conversions pictured.

The Americans from memory also did a limited standard version of this vehicle.

Look at this pic from Italy, it appears that there is a MG ring attached...

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Click here to see pictures and details of Stuart VI, PRESS ON, CT271427. It was brought home by Lincoln and Welland Regiment after WW2.

Here I read that CT271427 has serial No. 10778.

M5A1 Stuart VI Light Tank (without turret), (Serial No. 10778), combat survivor, served with the Lincoln & Welland Regiment,
Serial No. WD CT271427, Lake Street Armoury, 81 Lake Street.


(Andre Blanchard Photo)

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Although a turretless Stuart VI Recce exists, pictures of them in use are scare. Here are some Honeys with the turret removed as used by Recce Troop of the 8th Kings Royal Irish Hussars (RAC) (source)

When updating this thread by attaching the pictures and fixing the links, I found that there are two more pictures of Stuart VI Recces of the Recce Troop of the 8th Kings Royal Irish Hussars (RAC).

These pictures show a Stuart VI Recce being transported to Berlin in 1945:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Haridimos

Jumped here from the sister thread M3 Stuart recce / command pics / info required when I remembered that I had a photo of a Stuart mk 6 Gun towing conversion,
at the AFTER THE BATTLE magazine #37 issue.

The photo shows a Stuart VI at Portsmouth scrapyard ca 1982.

One of these Stuart VI’s converted post-war into a 17-pdr AT Gun Tower has found its way to Holland. It's owner Stefan intends to restore it as a Stuart VI Recce, which is why I am reviving this thread.

Stefan, if you go back up this thread you will find pictures of Stuart VI Recce vehicles:

• in service with the Recce Troop of the 8th Kings Royal Irish Hussars (RAC): at least two, possibly three can be seen in the pictures. One is named HAVOC, another has number "271387" and is camouflaged.
• one in service with troops which liberated Antwerpen (pictured near the Stadspark)
• one in service pictured at the "Grote markt" in Bergen op Zoom, Holland.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Stuart Recce (M3A3 as far as I can see), but it is in use with Canadian troops liberating Ermelo:


Date: 1945-04-18. Location: Tonsel - Harderwijkerweg 148, Ermelo
Source: [1] and [2]


Stuart Recce in service with Dutch troops in Indonesia in March 1949. Not an M5A1, but an M3A3 included here because it gives a good top view:

Collectie / Archief : Fotocollectie Dienst voor Legercontacten Indonesië Reportage / Serie : [DLC] Actie met tanks bij Toba en omstreken Beschrijving : [][2e Eskadron Vechtwagens] Datum : maart 1949 Locatie : Indonesië, Nederlands-Indië, Sumatra Fotograaf : Burgt, Th. van de / DLC Auteursrechthebbende : Nationaal Archief Materiaalsoort : Negatief (zwart/wit) Nummer archiefinventaris : bekijk toegang 2.24.04.02 Bestanddeelnummer : 264
Source: http://proxy.handle.net/10648/247ce5...1-fd36bf1ea194

[Alex van de Wetering]

Here is a picture of a turretless Stuart M5A1 in use by the Polish 1st Armoured Division on 11 april 1945 in Emmen, Holland.

source: beeldbankwo2.nl

Also attached is a screen grab of a video of the liberation of Coevorden. Units shown are again 1st Polish Armoured division.....and hard to see, but it looks a lot like 5 or 6 M5A1 Stuart Recce's.

source: http://drentsarchief.nl/onderzoeken/...true&miview=ff

from 2:45

Alex

[Darrell Zinck]

Hi

Another from "Faces of War"



Personnel of First Troop, “C” Squadron, Governor General’s Horse Guards, with their Honey tank, Cervia, Italy, 19 January 1945.

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discove...opy=a173596-v6

regards
Darrell

[Stefan Leegwater]

These are great photo's, thanks for sharing!

Stefan

[Alex van de Wetering]

IWM BU 3027

Germany April 1945; 11th Armoured Division Stuart Recce

M5A1 Recce? ....I think the M5A1 and M8 HMC were the only Stuart variations with the grill next to the towing hook(?)


source: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205207034

Alex

[Stefan Leegwater]

Hi Alex,

You could be right, that looks like an M5A1.

Would you or anybody else know what the inside looks like for stowage of boxes, radio etc. in a Canadian version?
I am about to weld on this hull, it is nice to prepare everything before blasting/painting.
I also asked on FB Stuart M5A1, there are M3A3 pictures, would the interior be basically the same?

Thanks,

Stefan

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Stefan Leegwater

You could be right, that looks like an M5A1.

Agree.

Would you or anybody else know what the inside looks like for stowage of boxes, radio etc. in a Canadian version?
I am about to weld on this hull, it is nice to prepare everything before blasting/painting.
I also asked on FB Stuart M5A1, there are M3A3 pictures, would the interior be basically the same?

As these were field modified, anything to make it work for the troops who used them. I would look indeed at pics of the modified M3A3's (see the one pictured from above), or descriptions on how Priests were converted to Kangaroos on my web page here: http://www.mapleleafup.nl/g104/apckang2.htm.

Basically the interior was stripped of all 37-mm ammunition storage and parts when used as a tank, reposition the radio into one of the sponsons, to make as much as room as possible.

From the history of the Lincoln and Welland Regiment's Stuart VI, PRESS ON, CT271427, you'll find that over time the same Stuart was used for a variety of roles:

This turretless Stuart VI now stands in front of the armoury in St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada. It is a late production M5A1, with periscope guards on the driver's and co-driver's hatches, the storage box on the rear, and a mixture of open spoked and solid road wheels.
It was found abandoned in France shortly after the Lincoln and Welland Regiment (10th Canadian Infantry Brigade, 4th Canadian Armoured Division) landed in July of 1944. It was abandoned by the South Alberta Regiment as the turret had been damaged. Everything else apparently worked, and one of the Lincs' mechanics got the engines running. The turret was removed and the CO pressed it into service for his own personal vehicle.
For the balance of the war, it was also used as an recce vehicle, ambulance, ammo carrier and many other tasks. When it was first used to take ammo up to some troops it looked so strange that both sides fired at it. At the end of the war the Regiment decided to bring it home as its "war trophy". Reportedly, when the Stuart came to Canada, it bore the signatures of all of the regimental members.

HTH,
Hanno

[Stefan Leegwater]

Thanks Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Just a second thought Stefan, and I checked the pictures on https://military-classic-vehicles.fr...ecce-a-vendre/

As it was stripped internally already to serve as a Gun Tower, I think the logical bits to remove for conversion to Recce are already gone. You would have to put the top deck and driver's hatches back on. These can be fabricated, Adrian Barrell has done this many years ago.

Just add a radio in an appropriate location - vital for it's role as a Recce vehicle, not so much as a gun tower - add a MG and you're done.

Attached a picture of a Stuart VI Gun Tower, just for reference - and because I couldn't find a new Stuart VI Recce picture ;-)

[Alex van de Wetering]

Couple more............details and markings blurry, as usual!

First one might be an M3A3 Recce (normandy)....other 4 stills show 2 different M5A1 Recce's in Belgium 1944.

source: Britishpathe.com (stills can be found there)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbmTTtQKf4o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNnYyJ4dc00

I am still looking for more pics/footage of the Canadian Recce in Bergen op Zoom, but sadly the city archive has moved to a new web address and somehow removed a lot of the interesting pics!

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

And an M3A1 Recce for good measure....

Roosendaal 1944
source: https://westbrabantsarchief.nl/

[Hanno Spoelstra]

This makes for interesting reading: http://overlord-wot.blogspot.com/202...pping.html?m=1

In September 1944 the British forces in the Mediterranean received a M5A1 Stuart (Stuart VI in British terminology), on loan from US forces, to see if it would be suitable for mass issue. They proceeded to run it on a 2,500 mile trial run after modifying it to the British standard. Obviously, they felt that returning the Stuart half worn out was not sporting or particularly neighbourly. Luckily, they were able to source some twenty-three Stuart VI that had been converted to British recce versions. Thus, one of these vehicles was returned to the workshop to be reconverted back to a US standard, and then returned in place of the one that was worn out. A list of modifications required to convert it back was included, and this gives us a good idea of what was needed to convert between British and US standards. The modifications required are:

[Stefan Leegwater]

Hanno,

Thanks for this information, interesting!

Stefan

[maple_leaf_eh]

http://overlord-wot.blogspot.com/202...pping.html?m=1

Who wanted to see overheads? Here you go! https://i.imgur.com/GbYcrLr.jpg

WRT the posted page for how to restore a Stuart to American standard, where would the cast off turrets have been stored? Seems unnecessary when the tanks were declared obsolete.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Who wanted to see overheads? Here you go! https://i.imgur.com/GbYcrLr.jpg

As far as I know, those pictures show the US prototype vehicle, which is different from the Commonwealth RECCE Stuarts. Also note that the one on the right has widened fenders and tracks.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

Who wanted to see overheads? Here you go! https://i.imgur.com/GbYcrLr.jpg

Like Alex noted, and see the caption on that webpage, that is a T8 / T8E1 Recce version as trialled by US Ordnance. These were never used operationally.

A number of collectors have fitted a ring mount to their Stuart Recces, presumably inspired by the American T8E1 Recce vehicle. One of them told me he added the ring because it “looked better”.
To date I have not found any evidence of Canadian Stuart VIs Recce tanks with a ring mount. Machine guns were fitted, but not on a ring mount.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Thanks for the clarifications. It caught my eye, and sometimes clues are missed.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another M3A3 Recce in Dutch service in the Netherlands East Indies.

Also see the CMPs on the left.

[Stefan Leegwater]

Perfect! please keep posting the RECCE pictures!

Some progress on the M5A1 in pictures, she is having good company with other Canadian armour and softskins!

Have a great weekend,

Stefan

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Excellent Stefan, looks like really good progress!
Can’t wait to see it running.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Decapitated M5A1.....

No idea what the story is on this one. Source: https://www.bevrijders1944.nl/collectie/

[Stefan Leegwater]

Nice find Alex!

Stefan

[strat1]

More Canadian Stuart RECCE photos, April/May 45.

[John McGillivray]

According to the Regimental history of LdSH when the Canadians moved from Italy to NWE the turretless M3A3s were replaced in the recce role by M5A1s with turrets. However , the M3A3s were not discarded, but were converted to ammo carriers.

[strat1]

Originally Posted by John McGillivray

According to the Regimental history of LdSH when the Canadians moved from Italy to NWE the turretless M3A3s were replaced in the recce role by M5A1s with turrets. However , the M3A3s were not discarded, but were converted to ammo carriers.

Correct, but not all, some were brought back into the fold as RECCE vehicles for the push to liberate Harderwijk .

[maple_leaf_eh]

I bumped into this image of a turretless Stuart. Is this a known image? I have zero information on the subject or context.