C8A HUM s/n 3844536691 1944

[Shayne]

I had hoped to simply drop in the 235 that came with the truck but alas the thing was a tad tired and full of detritus.
I have learned that the 1953 is quite different from other 235's and even armed with that knowledge few others, read parts counter stabilisers, realise this no matter how many times you skeptically ask for reassurance that it is indeed the correct part. So it translates into quite a few trips back and forth and sometimes simply coming back empty-handed and doing without. Lifter and pushrods for instance... no one could tell me if the set from a later 235 would work so the originals were used because no one could source '53 parts.
I had to make the spray bar using fuel line as the original was broken. The colour isn't right comparing to the original 216 and the black is artistic license but my heart's in the right place...
So the engine is pretty much complete and I'm just waiting for a couple of gaskets... but the truck itself is another story. This weekend I should be able to tear into it with some gusto. She's a pretty sorry sight right now!!

[chris vickery]

Looks great Shayne.

For info on the 235cid engine, you should do a search for the "stovebolt" discussion forum. It is US based and a wealth of knowledge can be found there by asking a few questions and reading through some of the posts.

The 235 was nick-named the stovebolt.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Shayne

Been working through the same problems of the running changes on 235 and 261. I have just finished setting up a 235 on the engine test stand and will be trying to start it today. Also have a 261 which I just finished assembling after complete rebuild. Chris is right about the Stovebolt forums, if you have not found all the good related sites, let me know and I try to paste my entire list of Chevy Stovebolt to a post.

One very useful site that I have found, it has been mentioned lately, is http://chevy.tocmp.com/ they have posted many manuals for different years, I've down loaded them all and it is useful because they point out many of the year to year changes.

Concerning your problem with the push rods, part of the fun with that particular part is that Chevy change how it measured the lenght at one point from overal lenght to tip to inside of the top pocket.

[Shayne]

Yes, a great site and I have perused it but saw nothing specific to the differences between the '53 and the later 235's. I hate to just show up and ask questions without being able to contribute.
The manual page is a real gem!
The pushrods are definitely a different length but I don't know about the lifters. Not only length but diameter. It stands to reason that the combined length should be the same but the moving assembly on the head is somewhat different so...
The parts looked to be in good shape so it should last another 15,000 miles. ;-)

[Phil Waterman]

Here is a web site that I've found useful in sorting out Chevy 6's these engines because of their long life and interchangeability are often a mix of years before you even start working on them.

http://aera.org/techtools.aspx is a site for checking casting numbers there are also some other good casting number sites. One of the first things I do is check all the major casting numbers to see if the engine is a unit of all the parts atleast coming from the same year.

[Shayne]

The problem with having a truck engine is that none of the generic sites seem to have any information. I do know both the block and head are 1953:

The head, cast 3701887, nets me this:
"GM No Model 3.9 235 49-62 L 6 Head 3701887 1953, W/MANUAL TRANS, Chevrole"
The stamped number behind the distributor is XC70817 while the number below the 'GM' on the front right of the block is 5843351. Although any search I have attempted comes up empty according to information from Mr. Hayward this does indicate a 1953 block. I trust his information as the XC prefix does indicate the heavy duty truck engine.

What is a good place to source parts for these? Little things like the valve cover grommets, thermostat, an oil cap/cover/breather in anything but chrome... I bought a chome part and sandblasted it then painted it!

[Shayne]

Waddayathink?
Then again I've heard high nitrogen fertilizer and some diesel fuel can solve a lot of problems as well...

[Shayne]

That's all that is left of the axle! No inner left so I imagine it was pulled when it broke. The stubshaft rattled around in there for so long it has knurled over the lip and I'm having an 'ell of a time pressing out the outer race on the taper bearing.
Time for a bigger hammer... and a beer.

So where do I find a complete long axle?

And the kingpin bearings are done. So bad that the caps have shattered and I cannot get numbers from these. Any input?
Timken number for the roller race on the inner is 462 if anyone is keeping records. Outer race for the outer wheel bearing is 3948.

[Shayne]

Using a steering wheel puller, three 3/8 cap screws nuts and washers, three 1/2 inch nuts as spacers, and a 1/2 inch UNF cap screw.

[Lynn Eades]

Findanutha1!!

[Phil Waterman]

Not sure what the question was/is though from the location of the oil pipe and a few other bits it looks like it is out of a Chevy CMP. If your question is it rebuild-able the question is going to be how did the water get in. If it is down through the intake possible candidate for complete rebuild. If the head or block have any cracks then probably not worth the effort.

Cheers Phil

[Phil Waterman]

Shayne good approach lets you see what is happening while you pull the pin out. I've used as a field expedient a large socket wrench, washer and long bolt with nut. Yours has the advantage of letting you see if the pin is turning as it comes out. Had to do this once in the field with only the socket and bunch of washers and a single bolt using the threads in the pin for pulling power. Problem was that the pin started turning and I could not get the bolt out to put more washers under the head of the bolt, ended up pulling it the rest of the way out by prying under the washers with a pair of screw drivers. Next time I'll use your method.

Or of course you could use Special Tool XA-3363-A Pivot Pin Puller

[Phil Waterman]

Shayne

Though I've had new rear axle shafts made, I've often wondered what I would do if I ever broke inner shaft on the front end. With a bit of luck you could always just remove both inner shafts, as was often done after the war to neuter a four wheel drive truck, this was even covered in some of the end of the war manuals (on US Trucks).

As a starting point for your parts search amount the CMP family how about posting a copy of the exploded parts view showing which bits are reusable and what have been destroyed.

Good luck.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Shayne

And the kingpin bearings are done. So bad that the caps have shattered and I cannot get numbers from these. Any input?
Timken number for the roller race on the inner is 462 if anyone is keeping records. Outer race for the outer wheel bearing is 3948.

Kingpin bearings New Departure 928 and are now superceded and out of production. An alternative is Aetna A-1570. Expect to pay big $$ for any you can source.
Cup for inner bearing is Timken 453-X, cone is 462
Cup for outer is Timken 394-A, cone should be 399-A

[Shayne]

No question. I just thought I'd share. That engine is done with no real hopes of resurrection without divine intervention.
The reason for dismantling the engine is to get the pesky thing to turn over so I can remove the bellhousing. HA! Had I known it looked like that I would have pulled the crankshaft first rather than wasting my time with the head.

I have rebuilt a 1953 235 XL for when the time of motivation (the truck's, not mine) comes.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Shayne, I had one like that that I needed to remove the bellhousing from. I ended up torching the crank in two just ahead of the rear main so I could get it apart.

[Lynn Eades]

If you sand out the rust, and then pour some diesel in each cylinder and set fire to the diesel, the heat from the slow burning fuel will warm things up, and probably free it up. You may even get enough heat from the little bit that sits around the outside of the piston with the hole in it. If that doesnt work, drill the hole and tap a bolt into it, to stop the diesel running through.
The diesel may have to burn for maybe an houror more. Try it!

[Shayne]

Too late! Zipcut made short work of the crank.

If anyone needs peripherals for the 216 let me know before I throw it out.

[Shayne]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

Shayne

With a bit of luck you could always just remove both inner shafts, as was often done after the war to neuter a four wheel drive truck, this was even covered in some of the end of the war manuals (on US Trucks).

As a starting point for your parts search amount the CMP family how about posting a copy of the exploded parts view showing which bits are reusable and what have been destroyed.

Good luck.

I want to keep it 4WD so I would like an axle.
As I haven't pulled the third member yet I don't know how extensive the damage is. For now I'd be happy with a complete axle as from what I can see this is the only thing I will have difficulty with. Bearings are junk but complete so I have dimensions if the worst comes to the worst...

[Shayne]

Most importantly I need a driver's door and front long axle (left). I also need numerous small bits that can be fabricated but parts like the doghouse, window frames, square hatch cover and grab handle, etc. would expedite the restoration so a parts truck may be better than individual parts.
I'll take what I can get.
Would prefer BC but will travel as far as Oregon or Manitoba to trailer a truck back.
Parts are for a 1944 Chevrolet.
Thank you.

[Grant Bowker]

Since your ZL is part of the Heavy Utility family, C8A, there are many parts that are not common to other models.
The driver's door appears similar, but some used a different latch mechanism, more like a car door.
The front axle assembly is different from the heavier models. The track width is different and I can't tell you whether it is just the center housing and inner axle shafts that are different or whether other parts are different too, comparison of the C8A and C15A parts manuals should help you with this.
The doghouse appears similar, as does the co-driver's hatch. Window frames probably follow the doors, if the doors are common then the window frames probably are too. Again, let the parts books guide you.
If you have the chance to grab a spare C8A series chassis, take it. You will be surprised how often you can go out to grab a part or simply look at the second one for comparison to see how a thing was done.

[Phil Waterman]

Shayne- Just to help with your search as near as I can tell the Dog House is the same on a 1942 C60 Pat 13 as on a late 1945 HUP. Side by side photos of the two http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...20Drawings.htm the OD one is the HUP.

Cheers Phil

[poorman]

Shayne ,I could help you out for your parts. Give me a phone at 1 204 745 3405. Jim

[Shayne]

For confirmation Jim, my e-mail address is BMW5er@shaw.ca.
Thanks again!

[Shayne]

Although I've had no luck so far here are the IBI cross reference numbers for the radial/thrust kingpin bearings:

ATB: AT13
Carman and Ford: CO1Q3123B
GMC and Massey Furgeson: 900928
Nice (pronounced Niece): 6081 or N1153
Rockwell: 1828K37
MRC: 14FAK379

[Col Tigwell]

used the IBI guide for many years, but you need to be a bit carefull, as they group all same sized bearing together.

Need to get advice from a good bearing man, as you could end up with light capacity units.

Regards

Col

[rob love]

Here are some of the cross ref numbers from the Cdn NSN microfiche.


Aetna A1570
Eaton K5756
Condec 01760-0011 , 1760-011 or 1760-0011
Rockwell 1228G267
Long-airdox, Rockwell, Condec 1828X37
Nice 6113
Chatanooga Boiler & tank co, New departure, condec 928

I posted these a while back when I sold my last set of 4 NOS bearings:
http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9587

The NSN 3110-00-158-6691 is for these bearings. There is actually 1 listed as part of a lot of parts being sold out of Montreal Supply Depot.

[Mike K]

Not sure what you are on about ..but a club member here, Len Schutt ... on his C8AX. He successfully modified a C15A front inner shaft > It was shortened and re-splined by a gear cutter ... to fit the C8A diff. It works great ..no problems .



Mike

[Bob Carriere]

First you have to relax.... take a deep breath.... a few beers might help....

First the bad news ..... the king pin bearing..originals were... New Departure 928 and has every one as already told you THEY ARE NOT MADE ANY MORE AND NO EQUIVALENT KNOWN TO EXIST.

Some NOS stock was found a few years ago in Texas and in the UK.... at $130 a pop and you need 4.......

The good news...... on your HUP only and ONLY the center of the front axle portion is different than a regular CMP..... by this I mean that on each side of your front axle you have a bolted flange that holds the egg cups..... everything front the flange outward is standard CMP.... all parts are interchangeable....... you inner axle shafts will be shorter than a regular CMP but has the Australian have found... a CMP axle can be shortened and new splines cut to match you inner gear cluster.

All the bearings and races are available.... you need to find a good clerk at a bearing service centre...... bring your old bearings and races.... they have software programs to search for bearings by size...... old part numbers are almost of no value.

As previously suggested you need to find either a HUP rolling frame for exact parts or start collecting used CMP front axle for parts...... I went through about 4 CMP axles to finally get the elusive ( to me any ways) R-Zeppa axle joints...... now I can smell them out of a junk yard at 40 paces.

Depending on the year of your HUP you may have problems finding an oil seal for the front axle.....that's the inner oil seal..... on the 1945 HUP the front axle from Rob's HUP was totally different than a CMP..... we found a source for the inner ID but could not match the outer dimensions..... solution is we had aluminium flange fabricated that held the size oil seals we could find.... cost.... about $40 each (x2)..... if you are stuck with that seal when you get there post a picture and will see what we can do to help you.

Now go out there and start scrounging CMP front axles.....and save the circular shims that sits on top and bottom of the king pin bearings.....

Bob

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another C8A MACH-ZL2 thread resurrected from the past.

Who knows where s/n 3844536691 is now?

I understand Shayne has sold it, and he hasn't been on MLU for many years.

Hanno