Info needed: Help to identify my engine!

[Richard Nixon]

I'm confused! My C8 is registered as a 1941 Chevrolet

The engine number thats stamped on the side of the engine is PR3870771
The engine casting number is GM 839253
The head casting number is 838773

From what I have researched in this forum, David Hayward (RIP) and Cletrac (RIP) identified this as a 1940 216 engine fom the head casting.

http://1954advance-design.com/Stoveb...g-numbers.html

This website shows it as a 1940 head but the block casing doesnt quite match.

Chevs of the 40s, who I was conversing with about buying the engine parts I need, have said it is a canadian 230 engine!

Can anyone identify my engine from the numbers and give me a definitive ID on it?

Many thanks
A very confused Richard!!

[chris vickery]

From my sources the head comes back as a GM 216cid. Was not able to find any references to the block 839253.
Chris

[Richard Nixon]

Thanks Chris,

For reference the bore is 3 1/2" and the stroke is 3 3/4"

[Grant Bowker]

In an effort to help, I went looking for David Hayward's large list of #s. The one I'm thinking of has a red/pink background and has been republished several times in deifferent places (many of them crediting David)... and right now I can't find any of them. Can anyone help me find a link to it?

[david moore]

For what it is worth, I've looked at my copy of the Ford CMP list. Your engine number is not included but the nearest ones that bracket it are dated ;
PR 3868623 - C60L 12 Dec 1942
PR 3881308 - C60L 22 Jan 1943

The C8's listed are all in the range (ZR) 2802530 to 3766043
Are you sure that your engine isn't ZR as opposed to PR?

[Richard Nixon]

Hi David,

Yes its definitely PR.

A friend of mine thats an ex REME chap, said that if they put rebuilt landrover engines back in a landy they prefixed it PR. Would that practice have been in use in the 40s?

The engine overhaul plate shows it had std bores, bearings and big end bearings in October 1945.

[Paul Singleton]

Are you sure that the bore is 3 1/2? If it’s 3 9/16 you could have a 224 engine from a Canadian GMC truck. I haven’t seen one but it is listed in my 1939/40 Canadian shop manual. It was a Canadian manufactured engine for the GMC and basically seems to be similar to the 216 but with a larger bore and aluminum pistons. It was probably made obsolete by the 235 engine introduced in 1941. If it is a Canadian built engine that may be reason for the odd casting numbers.

Paul

[Richard Nixon]

overhaul plate and engine number.....

[Richard Nixon]

Originally Posted by Paul Singleton

Are you sure that the bore is 3 1/2? If it’s 3 9/16 you could have a 224 engine from a Canadian GMC truck. I haven’t seen one but it is listed in my 1939/40 Canadian shop manual. It was a Canadian manufactured engine for the GMC and basically seems to be similar to the 216 but with a larger bore and aluminum pistons. It was probably made obsolete by the 235 engine introduced in 1941. If it is a Canadian built engine that may be reason for the odd casting numbers.

Paul

Hi Paul,
Yes its definitely 3 1/2 bore.

[Richard Nixon]

casting number

[Richard Nixon]

I think I might be getting somewhere! I have found PR engine numbers in this list:

https://hotrod.gregwapling.com/chev-...dian-chev.html

It shows the PR series as being assembled in Australia. If I understand it correctly my number is in a series of engines assembled in Melbourne (starting from PR3849349) This shows the engine was in a C60S (Model 2844200538M)

Grateful if someone can confirm my theory!! If right at least I know its a 216 engine block!!

[Grant Bowker]

Thank you Richard, that's the listing I was looking for.

[Lynn Eades]

Just for your info, the 235 has a 3 15/16" stroke with the 3.5" (same) bore size as the 216 cu. in.

[Paul Singleton]

I found this reference this morning, unfortunately the link is dead to the source. The post was from 2007.

The casting number 839253 appears to be a Canadian 1940-1945 Block (info I have from David Hayward). I have a unique Canadian only casting # on my 1938 216. Apparently GM Canada had 2 engine plants. The one in Oshawa produced casting numbers the same as the US. The one in the Windsor area (Walkerton maybe?) used a different casting number.

[Richard Nixon]

I finally got to the workshop to take photos of the casting numbers on the head and the date code on the block.....

[gjamo]

Refer to this discussion.
https://www.tm9-801.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1778

[motto]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Just for your info, the 235 has a 3 15/16" stroke with the 3.5" (same) bore size as the 216 cu. in.

Hi Lynn
According to my data the Chev 235 unpressurised (WW2) engines had a 3-9/16" bore. 3-15/16" stroke is correct. These figures came from TM 10-1557 for 1-1/2 ton 4x4 truck (Known as the Yankee Joe in this country)
216 engine was 3-1/2" bore and 3-3/4" stroke.

David

[Lynn Eades]

David, you of course are correct. I should not make statements based on memory. Back to the book, I see the 216 is described as "standard engine" and the 235 as"Heavy duty engine".

[Alastair Thomas]

We have a F60S LAAT which came with the 21 stud 3.6 litre engine.
This engine lacks power probably due to some fundamental error during a previous rebuild such as the cam shaft being incorrectly timed.
We recently had the chance to buy a 24 stud engine in reasonable condition. However, on disassembly it turned out that it too is a 3.6 litre engine. We thought we had measured it incorrectly at first but found out that Ford of Canada did make a batch of hybrids.
Does anybody know if it can be bored out to 3.917 cc? We are told that this is not possible but that information may be based upon the blocks cast for the 3.622 cc engine in 21 stud form.
Confusingly it is stamped R3917 but callipers do not lie!
So far we have not found any other markings on the block other than a cartouche on the bell housing where we expected to find the engine number. I interpret this to mean that it is indeed a 3.6 litre engine.
Can anybody help please?
Alastair
F60S LAAT
Lynx I MkIII*

[Paul Singleton]

Your 3.6 litre, or 221 engine was known as the 81A and was a 24 stud engine manufactured from 1938 until 1942. To my knowledge it can’t be bored enough to create a 239 engine. Some 99A Mercury blocks from that era have thicker cylinder walls and can be bored quite a bit over size, but are 239 cid to start with, but are fairly rare.

[Alastair Thomas]

Thanks Paul.

[Lynn Eades]

Hi Alastair. Go to VanPelts v8 website to identify your motor (at least the American versions) Hunt on the web for info on how to I.D. your motor. Most Ford V8s of the era were 3.6l (3 1/16" bore) or 3.9l 3 3/16" bore. I believe you can bore the small engine to a max of 3 3/16" (0.060" o.s.) however you are better to find a good later model block to start with, in my opinion
If your motor is a British 21 stud they were rated at 60 h.p. (18mm spark plugs?) Without checking, I believe these motors had thrust faces on the big end shells. I dont know if that was all of them.
Anyhow, The camshaft could have a bolt on gear or a pressed on gear. If it is pressed on your only way to alter the valve timing is either strip down or to drop the sump and remove the crankshaft gear. Not much fun. It should have a bolt on gear either Iron or Alluminium.
Another minor problem you might have is the cam profile. From 1942 on the Canadian engines for heavy trucks were fitted with a C59T camshaft. (Improved torque) (this is not your main problem)
Btw. A C21A engine is a factory 3 1/16" bore.
I have a C59 engine (first produced in mid 1941) I have bored it to 3 5/16". It goes well (It's in my Bren carrier)

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Alastair Thomas

We have a F60S LAAT which came with the 21 stud 3.6 litre engine.

Confusingly it is stamped R3917 but callipers do not lie!
So far we have not found any other markings on the block other than a cartouche on the bell housing where we expected to find the engine number. I interpret this to mean that it is indeed a 3.6 litre engine.
Can anybody help please?
Alastair
F60S LAAT
Lynx I MkIII*

Hi Alastair,

I believe those are just some form of foundry marks and have no bearing on engine ID. I have looked into this before and never found an explanation of what they meant. I have two 1946 C69A, 239 CID engines with different marks as shown.
I doubt being of North American origin they would be specifying engine size in litres back then also.

Cheers,

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Alastair Thomas

We have a F60S LAAT which came with the 21 stud 3.6 litre engine.
This engine lacks power probably due to some fundamental error during a previous rebuild such as the cam shaft being incorrectly timed.
We recently had the chance to buy a 24 stud engine in reasonable condition. However, on disassembly it turned out that it too is a 3.6 litre engine. We thought we had measured it incorrectly at first but found out that Ford of Canada did make a batch of hybrids.
Does anybody know if it can be bored out to 3.917 cc? We are told that this is not possible but that information may be based upon the blocks cast for the 3.622 cc engine in 21 stud form.
Confusingly it is stamped R3917 but callipers do not lie!
So far we have not found any other markings on the block other than a cartouche on the bell housing where we expected to find the engine number. I interpret this to mean that it is indeed a 3.6 litre engine.
Can anybody help please?
Alastair
F60S LAAT
Lynx I MkIII*

what is the code number stamped into the distributor as shown ?
Eleven (11), or something else, for example Sixty-eight (68)

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