Wire Reel

[James D Teel II]

Hi all. What’s the model of wire reel that would have been found on the right front of a signals jeep and would anyone have one they’d wish to part with? From the plans in the Van Meel book, it would appear the reel is approx 6” in diameter with a 6” width. Can anyone confirm this? Thanks.

[Matthew P]

Is it anything like the US reel? That's a DR8 and is about that size, maybe 8"x8" DR8-A and DR8-B reels are nearly identical and easy to obtain.

Matt

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Matthew P

Is it anything like the US reel? That's a DR8 and is about that size, maybe 8"x8" DR8-A and DR8-B reels are nearly identical and easy to obtain.

Matt

I think they're bigger than that (the DR8 reels), but I'd need to check.

For a UK/Commonwealth signals jeep, it's probably the Reel, Cable, No.1 which fitted the infantry cable layers and also the "Barrows, Drum" which would take much larger sizes of reel. That would give about half a mile of single (D3) cable or a quarter of a mile of twin (D3 twisted) per reel. They'd need to carry a cable layer of some kind to be able to reel it back in, I suspect, because the reproduction mounting doesn't appear to have a winder - it's just a round spindle.

D3 was rubber insulated with a waxed woven (linen) jacket in various colours, and is fairly thick. I don't know when the plastic (or paint (!)) insulated cables appeared on the scene, though certainly before D-Day as "Assault Cable No.1" (copper plated steel wire with an insulating coat of paint) was issued on wooden reels and considered disposable (no attempt made to recover it for re-use), while Assault Cable No.2 (7 strands steel, 1 copper, PVC jacket) was issued in hessian-wrapped doughnuts for use with Reel No.4 (and ACL No.10 - which was just an arm-hook with attached spindle).

(Wanders off to measure some reels...)

OK, DR8B is 9" diameter and 9" wide (exterior dimensions) and intended for twin cable. (I assume the DR8A was for single cable.) It has a square socket for the spindle, presumably for RL-79 and similar laying equipment. Both ends of the cable are brought out to insulated terminals on one face of the drum.

Reel, Cable, No.1 is 11" diameter and 6.5" wide (6" internal) for a round spindle with square sockets at the end for the winding handle, it has a wooden core with a recessed single terminal connected to a slip-ring on one face of the drum to allow the cable layer to communicate while laying or reeling-in if desired. (There was a strap-on heel-plate for the person carrying the cable layer to provide earth return - it probably only worked well in really wet and muddy conditions!)

D3 cable is thinner than I remember it, so a reel might have been 880 yards of twin or 1 mile of single. (I was probably thinking of D8, which was a rather thicker item for longer circuits (more copper and insulation to reduce circuit losses).

Chris.

[Matthew P]

Chris,

I can't speak to the Commonwealth Signals equipment but I know a little from being around several friends who do US Signal Corps. All the reels carried twinned wire. Need two strands to wire up a field phone. The square on the smaller reels was for a carry handle for dispensing, sometimes a harness was clipped to it as well. The larger reels went onto carriers, racks, carts etc. DR-8, DR-8A and DR-8B only vary by contract date and some details in the mounting locations for the terminal block. and in the holes in the side of the flanges.

Matt

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Matthew P

Chris,

I can't speak to the Commonwealth Signals equipment but I know a little from being around several friends who do US Signal Corps. All the reels carried twinned wire. Need two strands to wire up a field phone. The square on the smaller reels was for a carry handle for dispensing, sometimes a harness was clipped to it as well. The larger reels went onto carriers, racks, carts etc. DR-8, DR-8A and DR-8B only vary by contract date and some details in the mounting locations for the terminal block. and in the holes in the side of the flanges.

Matt

I've seen photos of American reels used by Commonwealth troops so imagine they were supplied, plus having the advantage of being much easier to find.

Point of order: WW2 British and Canadian field phones could use a single wire and ground.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Matthew P

Chris,

I can't speak to the Commonwealth Signals equipment but I know a little from being around several friends who do US Signal Corps. All the reels carried twinned wire. Need two strands to wire up a field phone. The square on the smaller reels was for a carry handle for dispensing, sometimes a harness was clipped to it as well. The larger reels went onto carriers, racks, carts etc. DR-8, DR-8A and DR-8B only vary by contract date and some details in the mounting locations for the terminal block. and in the holes in the side of the flanges.

Matt

Originally (and we're going back to the European War (later known as the Great War, and finally WW1)) they used enamelled copper wire and wooden bobbin or slotted batten insulators and single wires plus earth spikes. Twin (i.e. all metallic circuit) cable came later once it was discovered that it could be eavesdropped on from a considerable distance.

Earth return was still used (to economise on cable) where possible until fairly recently. (OK, the 1960s.) e.g. assault cable.

I have a couple of DR8B reels (full) and the cable layer + straps as a result of an incautious eBay purchase. (The seller had copied someone else's lot description and just changed the photographs - I'd bid on that lot and the courier had lost it for a month... this is not relevant, but it explains why I have some US line kit.)

UK/Commonwealth (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, etc.) all used basically the same kit which evolved (very slowly) over time. Things like cable, earth pins and cable laying equipment standardised in the 1920s and were still current in WW2, some of it until the 1980s and beyond.

It depends on what James' signals jeep is representing, if it's Commonwealth then probably Reels, Cable, No.1 and D3 cable (single or twin) would be correct. (Assault cable was mainly an infantry item, and a metallic circuit (i.e. twin cable) would be needed for any variety of remote control unit.)

I also have no idea if the repro reel carrier I've seen accurately represents the WW2 Signals Jeep version - I suspect it does because the postwar Wireless Truck had a pair of cable reels with no apparent way of reeling-in any laid cable. I assume they parked up, grabbed the free end and walked it out to where it was needed, then either cut off the necessary length and abandoned it each time they moved or had someone else collecting up abandoned cable for re-use. If you need to reel-in the cable then you need an ACL (Apparatus, Cable Laying) to do that because there's nothing on the reel holder fitted to the vehicle.

Argh! It's 0100A and I need some sleep. Good Morning.

Chris.

[Matthew P]

Chris,

Thank you for that reply. I just learned a LOT in a single post. Amazing how that internet thing works. You get some rest. Even with Covid there must be some boot sales to get to later.

Matt

[James D Teel II]

Thanks all for your help. I’ve been able to source a No1 Mk1 reel from England.