Chevrolet coolant condensor can

[Tony Smith]

NOT the same as the CMP condensor can, taller dimensions but similar construction. May fit MCP or Chev car?



https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-19...MAAOSwZXFfJ1e5

[Grant Bowker]

So at least one person besides me saw the listing and found it interesting....
It is also a smaller diameter than CMP condenser cans (but the common design elements are obvious).

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

....but the common design elements are obvious...

That was the reason I posted it. It appears to be NOS Genuine Chev, complete with Chevrolet logo and instructions. For those reasons alone, I thought it would be an interesting example.

And for all I know, It may also fit another military vehicle besides CMP. In fact, I originally thought it was for a Desert Jeep!

[Mike Cecil]

Looks very similar to that used on the Ford-MH 'Car, Scout, Aust' ie the Dingo. It was mounted on the right wall of the engine compartment. I had one, the difference being the legs were shorter and there was no red stencil.

So perhaps a commercially available part with many applications?

Mike

[Lynn Eades]

So, A contract that GM won to provide tanks for Jeeps, for example?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

So perhaps a commercially available part with many applications?

I'd say yes.

Seller’s description:

This is an original Chevrolet accessory radiator overflow condenser tank for various 1930's-40's Chevrolet car or truck applications. This condenser is in good condition with no large dents or major rust damage. There is minimal surface wear considering it has been used. There are no unintended bends to the mounting arms and nothing appears to be modified on this part. The final picture shows the Chevrolet emblem and safety/operating instructions. The canister measures 10" long and 4-1/4" in diameter and has original fittings in-tact with no damage. This is a great add-on to set your car or truck apart from others at the car shows and cruises.

So the CMP radiator overflow tank was an off the shelf design, adapted dimensionally to make it fit the CMP trucks.

[Grant Bowker]

The coolant overflow recovery tank described above sold for US$225.50


I wonder if this one will go as high? https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1937-thru-54...K/293150321386 I suspect it may be a repro as the listing says it is the last one, with 10 already sold. The listing also references "Counterpart Automotive" part # 41-8255.


From a post at http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=536752 "
Counterpart is the wholesale side of Car & Truck shop out of orange, CA. They are importers of many truck parts and wholesale to a lot of retailers."
Sure enough, the tank can be found at https://issuu.com/truckandcarshop/docs/ts_47-59_13_web

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Nice find, Grant!

Now let's ask this company to do a run of the smaller CMP condensor cans...

[Grant Bowker]

I measure the CMP can as very close to 6-3/4" diameter (including the rim, just because that is the easier dimension to take) and very close to 8-1/2" height (again including the rims) - so shorter and fatter than what the commercial reproductions. Getting into the detail, there is a difference in the water connection (as opposed to the central vent tube) on the bottom of the can between the cans made to mount on the cab side and those made to mount under the floor. In the attached photos, the underfloor mounted tank(s) is the one with the water connection on the side opposite the mounting straps so that the connection is (almost) at the low point of the tank whereas for the tank ponted on the side of the cab, the connection is closest to the cab and less exposed to damege. The can with dark green paint is the side of cab version, the others are the under floor version. The commercial reproduction construction more closely resembles the side of cab mounted CMP cans (both appear to have been mounted vertically rather than on an angle under the floor).

If only one version were to be reproduced, the one for use under the floor would probably be better (less volume of water sitting in the can at rest).
Also attached is a page on the condensor can from Convoy Magazine (Years ago, I did ask Marc Montgomery if it was acceptable to share the content of Convoy. He said it was OK.) The Convoy Magazine version is the under floor mount version.

There have been a number of discussions of the condensor/overflow/expansion tank/can over the years. One at http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...9647#post49647 included a drawing from Bruce Parker, attached to try to group information. Bruce's is the side of cab version.

[Mike Cecil]

If you wisk that info down to your local sheet metal shop, they should be able to provide a quotation to manufacture a small quantity.

In Australia, I'd be talking with Cecil & Co in Bayswater, Victoria, who have the necessary rollers, Philidelphia seamer, bottom edge rollers, and soldering setup - the only difficulty I can see is the pressed dimple in the top.

It is a straight-forward can-making process with a few quirks in terms of soldering in the tubes and the pressed dimple in the top.

Mike

[Grant Bowker]

The pressed dimple is actually in a smaller part a bit less than 1-3/4" diameter that gets soldered into a depression in the can top. Make yourself a hardwood form and tap, tap, tap with a light (I used 8 oz.) ball pein hammer. The seam up the side is just two 180 degree folds brought down on each other with a grooving tool (and maybe soldered for better sealing). The rolling of the can body - well, small slip rolls are getting cheaper or you could do a series of small bends on a brake as some of the originals look like they were done that way (if spaced at 1" each bend would be a bit less than 20 degrees, if spaced at 1/2" they'd be less than 10 degrees). The part I need to experiment with is the top and bottom. The depression in the top to receive the part with the dome is easy, a depression in a plate or hardwood and press in the depression (only as deep as the thickness of the sheet metal) with a close to size washer (can adjust sizing of the depression a little to suit the available washer or turn down an oversize washer). The reinforcement for the threaded outlet in the base appears to be spot welded and solder sealed in place. I've done the experiments to be confident the parts described can be made by a stubborn idiot. I haven't figured a plan yet to do the folded edges on the top and bottom. They need to be at least close to truly round to give the can an acceptable shape and the folds accurate to hold the can body. The folds aren't large and as a result a bit more care is needed. More thought and trials are in order. I'm pretty sure the straps/legs were spot welded to the body before top/bottom were added.

[Mike Cecil]

The top and bottom joins are rolled edges - done with a set of two shaped rollers in a top & bottom seamer that clamps the top and bottom in place against the rolled edges of the body. First stroke rolls the body edge over the top of the top (or bottom depending which way up it is), the second stroke flattens it against the side of the clamping plate at top. Each end is done individually.

The top and bottom pressings are round with a depressed edge all round.

The body is a rectangle of sheet steel with the points notched, ie cut at an angle, so that they don't catch or foul the edge roller when rolling the top & bottom edges.

Same manufacturing technique as making the great Aussie 'Billy' can, and I've made plenty of them during my senior school and university breaks. Of course, that is with the right machinery for the job, but if only making one or two, Grant's methodology and tooling sounds fine.

Mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Excellent info, guys! I have moved this thread over to the restoration forum.

Who's going to have a run of these cans made? I am good for one, I'm sure there are many others in need as these tanks seem to be missing most of the time.

[m606paz]

Hi Boys!
All production Chevrolet CMP have this overflow tank?
Regards

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by m606paz

Hi Boys!
All production Chevrolet CMP have this overflow tank?
Regards

Hi Mariano, yes they all had an overflow tank. Cab 13s , at least.
Earlier ones had the tank on the left front fender, later ones had them fitted under the mudguard.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

From https://www.prinstruckshop.nl/a-5018...overflow-tank/

Original Style Radiator Overflow Tank 1941-54
Part Number: 41-6416
€ 139,95

An original style radiator overflow tank used on the early pickups. Complete with both early(41-46) and late(47-54) decals, hoses, hardware and instructions.

A Genuine GM Restoration Part.

(No connection to the seller)

[Grant Bowker]

My impression is that although the style of construction is very similar to the Chevrolet CMP condenser can, the reproductions are taller in relation to their diameter than the CMP can. I would love to be proven wrong because as I see it, there's a fair bit of work involved to make a functioning close mock-up. The originals were made with a multi-fold roll-formed lock seam around top and bottom (like tin cans) that I can't reproduce - I would be simplifying the fold structure.

[Bob Carriere]

....at finding the old hand cranked canning machines.......

Now who, besides Charlie Down, can tell us the dimensions of the huge condenser tanks/cans used on the running board of F30 LRDG.....right side behind the driver????

....and by the way.....early production cab 11 did not have a condenser tank and the external side body panel ( but may have been retro fitted) was not even drilled for the rubber hose.... also no rubber marker lights on the fenders as they relied on the small internal light on the headlight reflector....

I installed a skinny stainless steel tank designed for hot rods on my cab 11....sandblasted and painted OD totally hidden in the inside crease of the radiator frame and left front fender..... holds about a litre + and works!!!!!

[8threcce]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

I measure the CMP can as very close to 6-3/4" diameter (including the rim, just because that is the easier dimension to take) and very close to 8-1/2" height (again including the rims) - so shorter and fatter than what the commercial reproductions. Getting into the detail, there is a difference in the water connection (as opposed to the central vent tube) on the bottom of the can between the cans made to mount on the cab side and those made to mount under the floor. In the attached photos, the underfloor mounted tank(s) is the one with the water connection on the side opposite the mounting straps so that the connection is (almost) at the low point of the tank whereas for the tank ponted on the side of the cab, the connection is closest to the cab and less exposed to damege. The can with dark green paint is the side of cab version, the others are the under floor version. The commercial reproduction construction more closely resembles the side of cab mounted CMP cans (both appear to have been mounted vertically rather than on an angle under the floor).

If only one version were to be reproduced, the one for use under the floor would probably be better (less volume of water sitting in the can at rest).
Also attached is a page on the condensor can from Convoy Magazine (Years ago, I did ask Marc Montgomery if it was acceptable to share the content of Convoy. He said it was OK.) The Convoy Magazine version is the under floor mount version.

There have been a number of discussions of the condensor/overflow/expansion tank/can over the years. One at http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...9647#post49647 included a drawing from Bruce Parker, attached to try to group information. Bruce's is the side of cab version.

Attachment 115471 Attachment 115470

Attachment 115472 Attachment 115473

Sorry for my late reaction on this thread since I'm now confronted with the search of a condensor.
Are there any pictures that show how the condensor is hooked up to the radiator??

[Grant Bowker]

The connections are on the bottom face of the can(vertical on the long axis). The connection in the center is open to atmosphere as a vent. The off-center connection is connected by tube to the overflow on the radiator neck.

[Harry Moon]

I've seen a few of these NOS that when used rusted out within a pretty short period of time. I use mine for show and use a black plastic oil bottle zap strapped next to the radiator for the real overflow and return.

[Grant Bowker]

I've wondered whether the various gas tank sealing products might work for sealing and rustproofing the interior of the condenser cans. I hadn't really looked in past to see how they perform in warm/hot conditions (shouldn't have to worry about much over the boiling point of your coolant).
One review on POR15's web site says they used it with success on a coolant recovery tank.
KBS coatings say their tank sealer is good for up to 500 degrees (assume Fahrenheit). Thy also give test results for chemical exposures.

At least the CMP coolant recovery tanks aren't under either positive or negative pressure...

[cordenj]

Recently acquired this brass Condensor Can, marked C-124238, from a long-term CMP collector.

Single pipes at each end. Has been painted olive green in the past, no other colour.

Were these fitted to early CMPs? Pre-dated the shorter steel versions?

Thanks

[Alex van de Wetering]

Were these fitted to early CMPs? Pre-dated the shorter steel versions?

John, as far as I know Cab 11's were never factory fitted with the condensor can, but you do see them on most, not all, Cab 12's delivered from the factory. So, I am guessing they were introduced somewhere in 1941. These are all the "normal" smaller size cans though.

Could your can be from an MCP truck maybe?....or something armoured.....Fox, Otter???

[Grant Bowker]

Based only on the stamped part number, I would not assume this to be a CMP part. The prefix "C" isn't isn't typical of either Ford (usually more than one letter and not normally C without another letter) or Chevrolet (normally no letters) in the period. Just looking at Chevrolet part numbers, they appear to have been assigned more or less sequentially in the order that the part was developed and by 1930 Chevrolet was already past 124238 in numbers so I doubt this would be a Chevrolet designed part developed for CMP use. I also don't see 124283 in any of the CMP parts books I checked.
Having said this, it is an opinion - not a guaranteed fact. I could be completely out to lunch on this and have missed somthing obvious.

[rob love]

I see 6 digit numbers prefixed like that all the time for early the US military items, prior to them adopting the FSN, and later developing that into the NSN. Perhaps it is a US military number.

[Jordan Baker]

Otters mid way through production were fitted with the standard CMP can. Early Otters didn’t but a modification kit was released to fit the cans in them.

[David Herbert]

I agree with Rob, I think that is an American part number. The 'C' refers to the size of the drawing of the part, 'A' being the biggest. It does not indicate a manufacturer or a revision.

David

[Grant Bowker]

Thanks to Rob and David - I went and dug out some of the stash of blueprints I received from Alex Blair's collection to look at their numbering. One drawing in particular caught my eye...
Drawing number C-321587 originally issued on paper marked as the Army Engineering Design Branch, crossed out and stamped as the Directorate Of Vehicle Development, Q.M. G. Branch, Dept. of National Defence has a reference to GM part 5820086 and depicts a "Flange-Transmission-Drive-Shaft". This drawing is dated 5-2-47.
Definite proof that the format of "C-######" was used to number drawings within the AEDB and QMG Branch, including automotive parts.

A very quick check in several CMP and GM armoured vehicle manuals didn't find 5820086. Hopefully someone else will have better luck finding the application of GM part 5820086...

[Maurice Donckers]

to me it looks like a T 16 Carrier condenser can , maybe somebody can check a T16 out.