WW2 database of tank, carrier and vehicle names used by various regiments

[Alex van de Wetering]

Kevin, thanks for making this list available for all of us to see! (and Hanno thanks for putting it online on the google thingy) As other said....excellent work.....what an extensive list.

One of the tanks I looked up was "Avalon", the Sherman Crab mk1 now in the Overloon museum. I see it listed as an M4, but it's based on an early M4A4 direct vision hull. I don't know of any wartime pictures, only pictures from 1946/47 when the museum had just opened, but I believe the name and census number are genuine.

[Harry Moon]

Thank you, very invaluable history .

[kevinT]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Kevin, thanks for making this list available for all of us to see! (and Hanno thanks for putting it online on the google thingy) As other said....excellent work.....what an extensive list.

One of the tanks I looked up was "Avalon", the Sherman Crab mk1 now in the Overloon museum. I see it listed as an M4, but it's based on an early M4A4 direct vision hull. I don't know of any wartime pictures, only pictures from 1946/47 when the museum had just opened, but I believe the name and census number are genuine.

Hi Alex,

We have tried to avoid using museum examples for names and numbers as they are not always what they propose to be. Museum examples are only used if there is confirming official paperwork/ photos.
AVALON is undoubtably a M4A4, I will update it accordingly.
Thank you for the correction.

Cheers

Kevin

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hi Kevin,

Well it was more a nitpick than an actual correction

We have tried to avoid using museum examples for names and numbers as they are not always what they propose to be. Museum examples are only used if there is confirming official paperwork/ photos.

I couldn't agree more. Far to often museum or monument vehicles have lost their true identity and details along the way, only to have them replaced by a made-up identity and markings.

But, that does make me very curious about Avalon. I am currently building a scale model of it, including the 20-ish Panzerfaust (?) penetrations on the right hand side...but there is some confusion about the true unit identity of the tank and how and where it was put out of action. Do you have any documentation that can shed some light on this?

Alex

[kevinT]

Hi Alex,

I have run a search across all databases (name list is 30+ years old) and emails (sad i know but i still have 10 years saved) and nothing has come up. The database does not have AVALON matched to a specific regiment, which regiment does the Overloon museum state it belongs to. If you can let me know I can then check to see if I have anything on that particular regiment.

Cheers

Kevin

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for taking the time to look into "Avalon".
The museum states that the Crab was part of the 22nd Dragoons, while some internet sources say it was part of the Westminster Dragoons instead. The latter is based on an article in The Telegraph on William Hall, who is said to have commanded the very tank when it was put out of action in Broekhuizen (SW of Overloon). The museum however states that the tank was put out of action, close to Boxmeer (N of Overloon).

Another mystery is what caused the 20-ish penetrations on the right hand side of the tank, but I don't want to hijack the thread any further

Alex

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by kevinT

I have run a search across all databases (name list is 30+ years old) and emails (sad i know but i still have 10 years saved) and nothing has come up. The database does not have AVALON matched to a specific regiment, which regiment does the Overloon museum state it belongs to. If you can let me know I can then check to see if I have anything on that particular regiment.

I am not a specalist of Operation Aintree, but do know that all Sherman Crab flail tanks were operated by the 79th Amoured Division, 30th Armoured Brigade. The Brigade had three regiments: 22nd Dragoons, 2nd County of London Yeomanry (Westminster Dragoons) and the 1st Lothians and Border Yeomanry.

There is some uncertainty about to which regiment T-147955 "AVALON" belonged to. One story line states the tank commander was William Hall, troop leader of 4th Troop, "A" Squadron of the Westminster Dragoons. Another uncertain part is where this tank was actually knocked out with a Panzerfaust. Hall stated it was near a small town called Broekhuizen while other reports state it was near Boxmeer (further North).

Possibly Michel Sabarly has more info about "AVALON", he is an expert on the 1st Lothians and Border Yeomanry.

Edited to add: I now see Alex and I were replying simultaneously. Maybe we should start a separate thread about "AVALON", Alex?


2005 Overloon Sherman Crab (3).JPG
Source: jarnob.nl (2005)

4281563121_1a1d6672c9_k.jpg
Picture courtesy of Pierre-Olivier Buan

[kevinT]

If the markings are anything to go by the 51 on red is 22 Dragoon Guards.

One thing I did find were some landing tables. They don't all apply to 22 Dragoon Guards but they may be of interest to others.

Cheers

Kevin

[kevinT]

So you can only upload 5 files at a time!?

Cheers

Kevin