Worthington Park Stuarts

[Jason Ginn]

I was looking into the M5a1's at CFB Borden and I have been presented with a question that I can't seem to find an answer to.

Does anyone know when the Stewart's were added to the Worthy Memorial? He was interred there in late 1967 or early 68 but were the M5A1'a part of the base collection and added at the time of his burial, or were they a later addition?

Does anyone know if the tanks are stripped internally or basically complete?

I have copies of the MDAP documents from 1954 that show our "immediate desire" to divest ourselves of the Stuarts, and the subsequent Portuguese requests for the 96 we had listed in Inventory, but these two tanks remain questions. They are on Peter Fords 1946 list of 90 serial no's transferred to Canada but also appear to have been held back from the 1955/56 transfer to Portugal. In Portugal it is generally accepted that they received 90 M5A1's from Canada so 6 would have been held back.

I have read on one of the old MLU threads that these two tanks may have been recovered by DND from Levys yard for inclusion in the memorial, but i have no solid source for that claim. If they were reduced to spares prior to the MDAP transfer one would imagine that they had given up some of their internals by that time to be used in the spares program by DND or the one Levys was running.

Of course the other surviving Levy/ Elliotts M5A1 poses other questions as its recorded serial does not appear on the 1946 list of 90.

I've attached a 2005 pic by Bruce Forsyth to illustrate the memorial.

Thnx. J

[Colin Alford]

Jason,

I am not currently co-located with much of my relevant reference material, but will attempt to roughly address some of your questions.

The RCAC War Memorial (the monument flanked by the M5A1s) was erected in what is now known as Worthington Park shortly after the war (I think it was 1948). The two early images of the memorial that I have seen were taken from short range and aren’t wide enough to show the areas were the tanks are located.

I believe the M5A1s have been flanking the memorial since the early 1950s. If this is correct then they would not have been included with those sent to Portugal, and would have no connection to Levy’s/Elliots.

If my memory serves me correctly, This book:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/143816763977...yABEgKtHvD_BwE

contains a couple of images of a parade which are key to determining the date that the Stuarts were placed in the park. I believe the images show the Stuarts flanking the monument during a roll past of M4A1 Grizzly Tanks and Grizzly APCs.

I will attempt to provide better date information soon.

I believe that the vehicles are at least partially stripped (no engines), this seems to correspond with many of the early monuments in Worthington Park.

Colin

[Colin Alford]

I have located one of the pieces of evidence.

I do not remember the source of this image but I believe I found it on the internet a few years ago.

I did not recall that one of the M5A1s was visible in the image.

I certainly have no means of determining if the date is correct.

More to follow (probably not tonight though).

[Ed Storey]

The BD uniforms in the photograph are of the correct style for 1949.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

The BD uniforms in the photograph are of the correct style for 1949.

What do you say that? The open collar BD, though rare, could date to 1949 (I have one dated 1947)? These look like WW2 pattern but that's not surprising.

[Jason Ginn]

Wow ok that's interesting! If the date is correct on the pic then they were pretty new tanks when they were put there. We had only had them for 3 years at the time! Those two are on the 1946 list of those purchased from the US.

That is the earliest pic that I have seen of the 1946 Purchase M5A1's.

When was the Memorial created? I suppose sometime after 1945 and obviously before 1950.

Thanks so much!

[Ed Storey]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

What do you say that? The open collar BD, though rare, could date to 1949 (I have one dated 1947)? These look like WW2 pattern but that's not surprising.

They are not open-collar BD, but wartime closed-collar BD that is being worn open-collar with a shirt and tie, which was correct for the period. The first open-collar Canadian BD Pattern was indeed 1947 and this was followed up by the 1949 Pattern. Both people in the photograph are wearing wartime BD Trousers with the small right thigh mounted First Field Dressing pocket.

[Colin Alford]

Jason,

While the image quality is poor, here is a link to another Stuart picture that was apparently taken on 24 Aug 1948, after a mishap in Alliston. (The first town south of Borden for anyone unfamiliar with the area).

https://news.ourontario.ca/Barrie/2920869/page/10?n=


Page nine of this same newspaper edition also has an image of the MND observing an exercise from a Grizzly APC (“Kangaroo”).



The book linked in my first reply has an image and date which purports to be the dedication of the RCAC Memorial. However, I am skeptical about some of the image captions in the book, especially those with 1940s and 1950s dates.

This LAC entry indicates the Memorial was under construction in Autumn 1948:
https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Collec...98902057370280

[Jason Ginn]

Wow Colin i'm blown away!

I've brought both pics here for reference! That is wonderful confirmation of dates!

The driver who went through that bridge with a Diamond T, float and M5 would have had a headache and probably dirty shorts from the 25ft fall!

Love the APC pic as well showing the 19 Set antenna up! Makes me wonder what else is in the Barrie Examiner....

I can't thank you enough!

j

[Colin Alford]

Jason,

I have now found some old notes.

It appears that the memorial was “unveiled” in the fall of 1949.

Please see this Barrie Examiner article from 3 Oct 1949.

https://news.ourontario.ca/Barrie/pa...2908758&po=4&n

It quotes a Borden Citizen article that states the unveiling took place on a Thursday Afternoon, but I don’t know what sort of delay might have been involved between an article being published in the Borden Citizen and then subsequently reprinted in the Barrie Examiner, so the precise date is still in question.

The article also mentions that the event included the annual RCAC Association Dinner, so I can likely consult the RCAC Association minutes to firm up the exact date.

The article also mentions that 6 wreaths were laid during the ceremony. I note that the image in post 3 depicts 6 wreaths. I also note that the post 3 image doesn’t seem like an average December day in Camp Borden. This might indicate that the post 3 image was taken closer to the unveiling date in the fall of ‘49.

It is starting to seem likely that the Stuarts were part of the memorial from the start.

[Jason Ginn]

I totally agree with your findings! The 3rd of October was a Monday in 1949 so it may have taken Place Thursday Sept. 29.

The pic you posted certainly does show the 6 Wreaths and October looks like a better fit than December for sure.

I'm super happy that you could bring this little known bit of history out of the woodwork!

[Colin Alford]

Jason,

It’s my pleasure. This has been a welcome distraction from life’s woes, and provided me the opportunity to actually assemble some of this research into a (somewhat) coherent picture.

As soon as I am able, I will consult the RCAC Association Minutes to see if further info is available to nail down the exact date.

Regards,

Colin

[Colin Alford]

One more update...

I scrolled further down in the notes (originally compiled by my sister in the spring of 2018) and found that the 6 Oct 1949 edition of the Barrie Examiner had two images of the unveiling. See this link: (the device that I am using is not allowing me to save the images) https://news.ourontario.ca/Barrie/pa...2908759&po=7&n

While the image quality is poor, can we detect the tail of an M5A1 behind Gen. Sir Richard McCreery GCB, KBE, DSO, MC?

Also note the base of the saluting Dais. I have reason to believe that this M4A2 (76)HVSS was also made into a monument very early after its arrival in Canada. I’ll elaborate in a future post.

[Darrell Zinck]

Hi

Not much to add but a pic from the Corps pictorial history 2000 and a couple from find a grave.

Worth noting that started out as the Corps Memorial, later became Worthington Park (vehicles and the Memorial) and later still, Worthy's (and later his Wife, Larry) grave.


https://images.findagrave.com/photos...1407994280.jpg

https://images.findagrave.com/photos...1407993714.jpg

https://images.findagrave.com/photos...1408000679.jpg

Great thread.

regards
Darrell

[Jason Ginn]

It looks like when the Stuarts were refurbished the last time they switched sides when placed back on their pads! The one in the 1949 pic is now on the opposite side of the memorial.

The placement of the tanks in the 2005 image that I posted earlier is consistent with that of the 1949 one.

[Colin Alford]

I have located some additional dates.

The area was formally named "Worthington Park" in Feb 1960.

See this link to the 24 Feb 1960 Edition of the Barrie Examiner:

https://news.ourontario.ca/Barrie/2913139/page/2?n=1

[Colin Alford]

The bust was to be unveiled at 1500hrs on 03 Oct 1964.

See this link to the 24 Sep 1964 edition of the Barrie Examiner:

https://news.ourontario.ca/Barrie/2914582/page/3?n=1

[Colin Alford]

The burial took place on 13 Dec 1967.

See this link for the 14 Dec 1967 edition of the Barrie Examiner:

https://news.ourontario.ca/Barrie/2918658/page/2?n=2

[Colin Alford]

In post 13, I pointed out the M4A2 76 (HVSS) that was serving as a base for the saluting dais.

These attached two images are from page 339 of “The Royal Canadian Armoured Corps, An Illustrated History” by John Marteinson & Michael R. McNorgan, 2000.

I am skeptical about the date quoted in the image caption.

The camera position in these two images is essentially the same, with the upper image facing roughly south-west, and the lower image roughly north-west.

In the upper image we see a column of Grizzlies preparing to pass the dais (near Grizzly has gun depressed for salute, while the second Grizzly is in the process of depressing it’s gun). At the right edge of this image (and my close-up) we can make out one of the Stuarts on the terrace which should be flanking the Corps War Memorial (memorial is not visible).

In the bottom image we see at least two Grizzly APCs, where the crew commander of the near Grizzly is still saluting. We also see an M4A2 76 (HVSS), which is parked on a concrete pad which transitions into a path flanked by shrubbery. While we cannot see who is being saluted, I believe it is likely that this Sherman is acting as the dais as we can see in the image in post 13. The location of this Sherman is at the front centre of the RCAC parade square, which is out of frame to the right of the lower image.

I believe this M4A2 76(HVSS) remained in the same position until the early 2000s.

I find these two images very interesting from the standpoint that it appears to show an M5A1 Light Tank and an M4A2 76 (HVSS) as monuments while there are Grizzlies on parade.

Colin