2pdr. Scope Questions?

[Mike Cecil]

Good: early nomenclature for the No.124 (Aust) Mk.1. The LP stands for 'Local Pattern' ie Australian design or modified for Australian manufacture. 'LP' was dropped by early 1942, replaced by 'Aust'.

Mike

[Ron Pier]

Great information Mike! Mine is a No39 MK 2S? Clearly not correct for the gun as it says 6 pounder up by the cross hairs Ron

[Mike Cecil]

You'll have the 6-pdr owners after you now, Ron, wanting to do a deal!

The markings on the Aust sight are interesting, at least to me. The D/i\D marking is Department of Defence, which technically didn't exist in 1941 - it was the Department of Defence Co-ordination. The Army was the Department of the Army, and the department which actually issued the production order to JW Handley was the Department of Munitions, (specifically the Ordnance Production Directorate through the Victorian Board of Area Management). The spec for the 2-pdr sights were issued by the Army before June 1940 when the Dept of Munitions came into existence.

Leads me to look at later type sights to compare the markings.

Mike

[tankbarrell]

No 39 is 6 pdr tanks though, not 6 pdr anti tank guns. They use a No 22.

[Mike Cecil]

Thanks Adrian, always good to learn these details.

Not a sight with an Aust equivalent.

Mike

[Damien Allan]

I have owned a few of these scopes and probably 60% of a gun over the years, but have sold or traded them on due to the unlikelihood of ever owning a complete 2 Pr AT gun.

All scopes have been in the leather case as per the OP photos, and most made by the British Optical Co. of Sydney. The J W Handley ones are a bit rarer in my sample.

Given my ownership history in relation to 2Pr AT, this set up a quantum probability function that collapsed as soon as I sold my last 124 scope. The rather unlikely outcome was a 90% complete gun suddenly becoming available. Of course it is missing most of the T&E gear and a scope, which confirms that the 2Pr completion curse is diminished but still alive.

Having renewed cause to peruse the Australian published 2Pr IX/X Illustrated Parts List, it refers to different versions of the No.124 scope, being the:

124B Mk.IV (O.S.19.GA)
124B Mk.V (O.S.20.GA)
124C Mk.IV (O.S.18.GA)
124C Mk.V (O.S.21.GA)

The differences are hard to pick, as the illustrations are virtually identical, but appears to mainly be the difference between the diaphragm box cover, and associated grub screw on the Mk.V.

I was thinking that maybe the B and C types refer to SOC vs JWH made scopes? The differences in the IPL between B and C scopes is again the diaphragm box cover, which have different part numbers.

The other difference is the scope case. The IPL refers only to a steel case No.6 Mk.I rather than the leather case.
Is the steel case a faithful copy of the Brit / Canadian made cases?
Are there Australian makers marks on any of these steel cases?

JWH may have had the ability to do these judging by other scopes they made.

Is there a designation for the leather case?
I get the feeling that this might be the Australian Local Pattern?

As for the gun itself. I have managed to gather a few spares, but still hunting all of the elevation gear and most of the traverse gear. These seem to be the commonly missing parts due to the scrap metal industry, but any leads of parts of manufacturing drawings / patterns would be appreciated.

cheers, Damien