Temperature gauge question

[Grant Bowker]

Please understand that I'm not familiar enough with Ford and or Carrier electrics to be considered a "reliable expert". I have the impression that Ford 6V systems actually ran at 4.8 V in part. If I'm right on this and if the converter in use is designed to give 4.8V and if the statement that the gauge system is performing as if it is getting too little voltage are all correct - could this all fit together to make sense?

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

I have the impression that Ford 6V systems actually ran at 4.8 V in part.

Ford Ignition Systems do run at a reduced voltage through a resistor to give approx 4.8v to prolong the life of the points in the distributor, but the rest of the electrical system (Generator, battery, lights gauges, horn, etc) are not part of the reduced circuit, but use the full 6v (which is itself a nominal figure, as the Gen and the battery, when the engine is running and the Gen is charging, actually put out between 7.0v and 7.3v).

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Ford Ignition Systems do run at a reduced voltage through a resistor to give approx 4.8v to prolong the life of the points in the distributor, but the rest of the electrical system (Generator, battery, lights gauges, horn, etc) are not part of the reduced circuit, but use the full 6v (which is itself a nominal figure, as the Gen and the battery, when the engine is running and the Gen is charging, actually put out between 7.0v and 7.3v).

Agreed. The resister stepping down the voltage is to the ignition coil only.

[Lynn Eades]

To add to Bruce's input. The voltage going to the coil is the full 6 volts (battery voltage) This is to aid in supplying good voltage to the coil at start up. As the resistor heats up, so does the voltage (to the coil) drop to the 4.8? (4.5?) volts. The ignition resistor has a tin cover with holes in it (the cover is to stop you burning yourself + other things. Make sure your gauge resistor connects in from before that.
The problem with diagnosis via internet is that those attempting to help usually don't get the full details, and so the chances of getting it right are a bit like trying to win lotto.
Having read a bit about faults in Jeep fuel gauges, the gauge body has to have a good earth in the dash panel. In turn, a part of the gauge circuit needs a good earth inside the gauge body. These are common faults in old Jeeps. There are many things to consider.
Tom, the resistor you are using, Is it matched to the gauge? What I mean by that is that the gauge needs to receive a 6 volt input while the load (the gauge) is live (operating)
Does your carrier have 1 sender or 2? (one in each head?) In your left bank you should have one with a single terminal, and in the right bank you should have a sender with 2 terminals.(wired in series) The single terminal one does a gradual signal while the 2 terminal one is just a "hot on" "cold off" switch. I dont think Ford made a separate single terminal one for a 12 volt gauge (matched pair) but your original gauge is 6 volt so you have to use it that way (with correct resistor)
The system (less the resistor) is covered in the info that Tony directed you to. If you cant sort it out your self, then point the info to your 50+ y.o. auto sparky.
The Ford v8 is like 2 separate engines and the water only meets in the radiator. If you took the two wires off the R.H. sender and connected them together and insulated the join, then you could pull the sender out of the R.H. head and fit a separate bowden tube (capilliary) type gauge to that bank. It would then give you an idea of what's happening.
Lastly, you want the engine to run as hot as possible, but at the same time, to never have it boil. Good luck!

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Tom, the resistor you are using, Is it matched to the gauge? What I mean by that is that the gauge needs to receive a 6 volt input while the load (the gauge) is live (operating).
Does your carrier have 1 sender or 2? (one in each head?) In your left bank you should have one with a single terminal, and in the right bank you should have a sender with 2 terminals.(wired in series) The single terminal one does a gradual signal while the 2 terminal one is just a "hot on" "cold off" switch.

Other way around, Lynn. Cold=Closed, Hot=Open. BOTH senders are on/off, not a graduated resistance, the temperature each one sees determines the duration the contacts are closed, and therefore the time that the current heats the winding in the gauge.

I don't think Ford made a separate single terminal one for a 12 volt gauge (matched pair) but your original gauge is 6 volt so you have to use it that way (with correct resistor)

'Smatter of fact, Ford did! When they converted to 12v vehicles in the mid 50's, they continued using the same style gauges and senders by King Seely, but with different resistances to apply with 12v. (Temp, Oil and Fuel). All are visually identical to the 6v, but marked 12v. The 6v senders use screw terminals, while the 12v ones have 1/4" blade terminals. They can be handy if converting to 12v neg grd, as the systems are not polarity dependant, but there is a trap for the unwary as mixing them up will screw with the accuracy. I DO NOT recommend using the 12v senders if you're not fully on top of what you're changing.

Anyhows, the 12v Temp sender with single terminal is B6C-10884.

[Lynn Eades]

Thanks Tony. I had a gut feeling there were 12 volt ones, but my quick search never found them. The mixing of components was what I was concerned about and that's why I touched on it.
My personal experience with the senders is that they are very reliable and the biggest reason an old one is no good is because someone has damaged the terminal end.
When it comes to "on-off" my point was that the 2 post one is either open or closed, showing either cold or hot (for the right bank) and nothing in between. With the left hand single terminal unit, Yes it has points, but the ratio of open verses closed gives a specific temperature reading at the gauge which varies with L.H. cyl. head water temp. This then gives the operator a real time indication of the (L.H.) engine temperature across the range of the gauge. Basically the left bank indication is a reasonable indication of the whole engine until the 2 post sender is activated, which sends the needle to hot.
Addendum:
Five minutes after this the operator sees the steam coming from under the bonnet (hood) and looks at the gauge. Then, depending on how much water has gone, the temp gauge could be reading normal, because the sender bulbs are in the air (inside the heads)
Later in the workshop whilst looking at the scored bores he declares " I always watch my gauges, religiously!" (mechanic thinks to himself "yeah right!")

[Tom Millward]

Thought I’d share a picture of our group training on Salisbury Plain. Thanks to all the fellow Carrier owners who have helped get my Carrier to the point where I can use it like this.

I have a new found respect for Carrier veterans, it was a hard weekend driving it for two days! It was an epic battle trying to keep it on the road. On the heavily cambered gravel tracks around Salisbury Plain the Carrier has a tendency to fight you quite a bit, especially if the camber suddenly changes or you hit a bump and the track tension changes!

81D3FF68-2DD7-45AF-BCE2-176E2B866FB5.jpeg