Heads Up: Loyd and T16 up for auction 5-Jun-22

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Coming up for auction on the 5th of June in Normandy, France, are a Loyd and T16 Carrier. Both are in need of work to get them up to scratch but a lot is there to start with.

No doubt the location and the proximity to the D-Day anniversary events will mean lots of attention and bidders.

Link to Loyd lot: https://www.interencheres.com/meuble...-32045407.html

Link to T16 lot: https://www.interencheres.com/meuble...-32045431.html

See the links for more photos. Never mind reading the description, the T16 is indentified as a Windsor Less than half an hour spent searching on the internet could have yielded more accurate information (like my T16 website, for example )

No connection to the seller.

"This Loyd has been totally restored to the colors of the 7th British Armored Division, named «The Desert Rats».
This 1942 example still has its original brass production plate. Its restoration, of quality, respects all the specific standards of this model.
Completely reconditioned by its owner, the V8 engine has been replaced by a new Ford SAF type. The simplifi ed dashboard, pressure gauges and switches, brake and steering controls, transmissions, water and oil cooling systems, electrical and fuel systems have been completely reconditioned as close as possible to the original.
The steel track is in very good condition, the drive sprockets are dated 1943.
This Loyd has been recently used and stored and will need to be overhauled and put back into service.
The Loyd, a very rare model of the universal carrier series is also hard to find restored and complete, remaining a unique opportunity to acquire."

"Designed in 1935 and put into service in 1940, the Bren Carrier was used by the Anglo-Canadian and Commonwealth forces, not to mention the Soviets, as a reconnaissance vehicle, a troop carrier, a cannon and even a fl ame thrower at the end of the war. It was built by six manufacturers, including the powerful and renowned Ford USA through its Canadian subsidiary.
The Windsor is a hybrid model manufactured in Canada which takes the concept of the Loyd artillery tractor but keeps the sprocket drive at the rear.
Visually, it is recognizable with its extra roller (four instead of three) and it is, unlike those built by the British, equipped with a tarpaulin.
Its more powerful engine is that of the Loyd, that is to say the Ford 239ci V8 model GAU370 of 100 hp for 3.9 liters compared to the V8 of 85 hp for 3.6 liters of British origin.
Other diff erences include a controlled diff erential steering system, diff erent roller brackets and a longer simplifi ed body assembled by welding by the Dominion Bridge Company. In order to increase production, the Americans in their Ford plant in Somerville near Boston also built under Lend-Lease Windsor cars with the same characteristics from March 1943 to 1945 under the name T16.

This example built in the USA in 1943 has been completely restored by its owner respecting the standards of conformity of production. The Ford V8 engine and its peripherals, the dashboard with its gauges, switches and counters, the brake and steering controls, transmissions, water and oil cooling systems, the electrical and fuel systems have been completely reconditioned as close as possible to the original.
The undercarriage, wheels and steel tracks are in very good condition. The armor, mounting and accessory brackets are in good condition, the 30 cal or vickers machine gun mountings and the Bren gun in the front are present. This Windsor has been recently used and stored and will need to be serviced and made operational again.
The Windsor remains one of the rare models of the Universal carrier series, this complete and in very good condition example remains an opportunity not to be missed."

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Some pics from a friend who was in Grandcamp-Maisy earlier this week.

I believe (parts of) the T16's upper hull are reproductions - buyer beware.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Estimate for the Loyd was 20-30k€, high bid was 25k€. This screenshot was shared by Alastair McMurray.

Auction results of the T16 are unknown to me.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Auction results of the T16 are unknown to me.

You mean the "Windsor"? I think highest bid was 35K. I have a screendump at home, will post it tonight.

[Alex van de Wetering]

screendump of the auction. I don't know if the lots were actually sold, or if they didn't meet reserve.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

The auctions results show both carriers invendu - not sold.



Source: https://issuu.com/military-classic-a...ultas_juin2022

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Estimate for the Loyd was 20-30k€, high bid was 25k€. This screenshot was shared by Alastair McMurray.

Now for sale for €45,900

See https://military-classic-vehicles.fr...rier-a-vendre/

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

You mean the "Windsor"? I think highest bid was 35K. I have a screendump at home, will post it tonight.

The T16 "Windsor" is back up for sale: https://military-classic-vehicles.fr...t-16-a-vendre/

Like the Loyd, it failed to sell at auction and is now offered for 49 500€

I now see where the confusion comes from - it clearly says "Windsor" on the plate ;-)

[Alex van de Wetering]

Both on Milweb now as well.

https://www.milweb.net/webvert/102974

https://www.milweb.net/webvert/102973

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

I now see where the confusion comes from - it clearly says "Windsor" on the plate ;-)

Yes, but it doesn't make sense for the sellers to keep on repeating this error, while multiple people have already responded commenting on the error.

edit; I just read the ad on milweb......more "interesting" comments there. They seem to suggest the Windsor and T16 are identical, which as we know is definitely not the case.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Yes, but it doesn't make sense for the sellers to keep on repeating this error, while multiple people have already responded commenting on the error.

edit; I just read the ad on milweb......more "interesting" comments there. They seem to suggest the Windsor and T16 are identical, which as we know is definitely not the case.

It’s the same text they used for the auction catalogue. Unfathomable why they do not spend a little more time getting the facts right… I wonder they do it on purpose to lure a sucker into buyer it?!?

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

It’s the same text they used for the auction catalogue. Unfathomable why they do not spend a little more time getting the facts right… I wonder they do it on purpose to lure a sucker into buyer it?!?

I tend to think in this case it's the engraved plate and a lack of knowledge/research causing the errors.......but I agree.....some (other) dealers sometimes try to make the ads just a little bit too interesting....C60 APT's with wartime history.......A Morris with a description of a completely different vehicle.....and known museum exhibits that are offered as barn finds.