Crusader wrecks in Maryland?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hello Chase,

The surviving Panzers website lists these as "1 Crusader (A15) wreck and 3 Crusader hulls, Patuxent Wildlife Research Refuge, Laurel, MD (USA)" - see http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Cruiser_Tanks.pdf. No date or other details given.

As far as I know the Patuxent Wildlife Research Refuge is accessible - see https://www.fws.gov/refuge/patuxent-research, though I do not know if one is allowed to wander wherever you want.

I remember first seeing these photos when they were still a well-kept secret. I was told back then as these are sitting in the middle of a reserve, they cannot be removed as it would disturb the wildlife.

PaxCrusader0-1.jpg

[Philliphastings]

What’s the mximum lift capacity of a Chinook or Skycrane ��

Cheers

Phill

[Matthew P]

I'll ask around, that's almost my backyard. Wonder if any of my mother's bird watching friends are aware of "some weird old tanks" in the woods.

Matt

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Philliphastings

What’s the mximum lift capacity of a Chinook or Skycrane ��

Cheers

Phill

A civilian Chinook or Skycrane would be expensive and have to be closely coordinated as those aircraft are in demand throughout the year for cargo or firefighting around the world.

From Imperial War Museum catalogue for a Crusader II: Weight 42560-lbs, Height 88", Length 236", Width 104".

From US Army for Chinook CH47F: Sling-load capacity: 26,000-lbs center hook, 17,000-lbs forward/aft hook, 25,000-lbs tandem.

From a commercial operator of CH54A and S-64 Skycrane helicopters: the aircraft is capable of lifting payloads approaching 20,000-lbs.

So, no. Not intact. But possible disassembled. In my unsophisticated way, I would remove the surrounding trees to a radius of 25m, rig slings under the hull between the roadwheels, secure the turret from rotating, and lift straight out to the nearest large parking area. The weight of the steel is less an issue that the suction of the mud under the hull and tracks, therefore shovels, air compressor lances, jacks and blocking would be my recovery implements.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Recovery should technically be possible. But it is a wildlife reserve, so any disturbance is a no-no. Let alone with big honking helicopters

I guess we will have to view these tanks as preserved wildlife, too. At least this has kept them from being scrapped…

[tankbarrell]

The wildlife would recover overnight. I've spent many hours on active ranges and they are infested with wildlife. Birds of all sorts, rodents, foxes, deer etc etc. They keep coming back despite the active use with vehicles and artillery.
You hear the same arguments about airstrips.
It's only humans who seem to get traumatised by a little noise or somebody else enjoying themselves.

[ChaseR83]

Thank you for the replies guys,

I should add my interest in the tanks is for research, although don't get me wrong if there was a legit way for me to recover one to restore I would.

Crusaders are pretty rare in general but especially here in the USA, IIRC the only other one is now at Ft. Benning... essentially out of reach of the public. I "may" have made a new friend recently that would be able to get me access the the Ft. Benning tank... but even then a museum is only going to allow so much.

The state of the 4 Maryland wrecks seem ideal from a research standpoint, one is upside down, one is missing at least a portion of the side armor, various hatches are open or missing.

If the only real hurdle that they are in a semi-secret location well-off the beaten path... then it sounds like I need to dig out my hiking boots for the chance to have free access to photograph, measure and sketch the inside and outside the tanks.

If anybody knows a more specific location but does not want to post it online to keep the tanks safe from scappers or scavengers... I respect that, but I'm also willing to keep the location private if you'd like to share.

Thanks guys.

[Jordan Baker]

Some more pictures found on the net.

https://www.com-central.net/index.ph...er=asc&start=0

There is also the remains of a M5 Stuart there.