M38CDN Ambulance

[donjunior]

I have acquired an M38CDN that appears to have been an ambulance. There are remnants of a hood-mounted spare tire and hot water heater. It is in remarkable condition, and virtually rust-free (even in the rt rear corner). I would like to restore it mechanically (along with all of the perishables) and try to remove the flaking paint from the original semi-gloss (obviously, the hood might need color matching).

Questions:

Can anyone shed light on the markings?

Does anyone have pictures of an M38 ambulance in service?

Any pictures of the hood-mounted spare tire bracket?

Your assistance is appreciated!

"They're only original once."

Darcy

[JD Baillie]

It looks like the 15 on split red & blue background might be the 15th Fd RCHA in Vancouver. The rack in the back seems to be a C42 mounting tray. Don't know why 15th Fd would have an amb jeep but one never knows! 15th Fd did all sorts of odd things including a home built petrol tanker truck so they could convoy to the gun ranges at Yakima WA without stopping at a commercial gas station. 12 Med Coy/12 Svc Bn and maybe 1 CER Chilliwack were the closest units with ambs at the time.

JD

[David Dunlop]

JD

Always take the time to carefully check every logical place on your vehicle for military markings of any kind and document them for exact locations. sizes and colours. More important, never assume all markings found are a one shot representation of what the vehicle did and where it served.

The odds are your M38CDN was never an ambulance in in RCHA Service.

Two of these former ambulance M38CDN's have showed up in Winnipeg over the years. One was fully restored back to ambulance and the other was not, it just became another M38CDN.

I have no idea how long an active service life this style of M38CDN ambulance actually had. It would not surprise me at all if it was a relatively short life, with all of them ultimately getting reverted back to standard configuration, for which there was likely much more demand in the Canadian Army.

If you want to convert it to its ambulance configuration, you will need to find three key pieces, in addition to removing several that have been put back and added subsequent to its ambulance service time. The rear seat and tailgate must go, along with any of the radio equipment bits. The biggest challenge will be finding the stretcher floor plate assembly that drops down over the rear floor and extends through the tailgate opening almost two feet.

Then you will need to find the special ambulance top bow assembly that fits into the standard bow sockets on the rear sides of the body, but had an additional rear foldout bar that ends up sitting above the rear end of the stretcher plate. Finally, you will have to find the canvas ambulance cover assembly.

There was an ambulance front hood spare wheel bracket here in town a few years ago but it might have been thrown out by now. I can make inquiries if you are interested.

The vehicle is a real attention grabber when its complete and on the road.


David

[David Herbert]

To remove the flaking paint, my first plan would be a pressure washer. A domestic grade one might not do it but a proper commercial grade one would make a big difference and spread green paint flakes all over your yard and you.

Good luck with this project, it is in remarkable condition.

David

[donjunior]

Thank you for the comments, a pressure washer will be the first step in the restoration. I agree, it should take off a lot of the flaking paint, perhaps even revealing some additional markings. A friend forwarded me a copy of the Manual of Vehicle and Aircraft Painting and Markings and the red over blue suggests RHQ. I thought ambulance until one of you learned individuals pointed out that it wouldn't have a tailgate and rear seat. It also does not appear to have ever had any radio kit installed (the C42 mount sitting on the rear seat in one of the pictures is a false flag). Both of the rear fender wells are pristine, not only do they not have any additional holes, they bear no dents or signs of wear. It's possible that it was refitted at some point, however, the tailgate and rear seat look to be original to the vehicle (the various layers of paint match). Maybe RHQ makes sense and would explain the overall excellent condition of the sheet metal?

[Ed Storey]

There appears to be some confusion over artillery vehicle markings. The red over blue marking found on the M38CDN windshield is the arm of service sign and it signifies an artillery unit. The white number in the middle of this sign would have been assigned to the specific artillery unit based on the brigade or division order of battle and the number did not usually relate specifically to the unit it represented, so 15 would not necessarily have been assigned to 15th Fd RCA in Vancouver.

The red over blue RHQ marking you have talked about is the tactical sign and was part of a system employed by artillery units to identify the various vehicles and guns within an artillery unit. These smaller tactical signs would have been painted on the sides of vehicles, such as the doors.

If your intent is to replicate a 15 RCA vehicle and its markings from the 1960s era, then your best bet is to research a photograph of a vehicle from that particular unit and replicate it rather than trying to fabricate ficticious markings.

[rob love]

There are 2 or 3 of the main ambulance stretcher platforms at our local scrapyard in mb if you decided to install the kit.

[David Dunlop]

Hi Don.

It is unfortunate we have not yet discovered documentation stating when the 1952 M38CDN series of jeeps were converted to ambulance pattern, and how long that lasted before they were all restored to standard configuration.

My gut tells me it was probably a short lived experiment, but then I drink a lot of wine on weekends.

Assuming the ambulance idea ran its course early in the M38CDN service life, and they were all restored to standard, it makes sense all subsequent paint jobs applied to the vehicle would easily blend in a replaced rear seat and tailgate to the point they looked as it they had always been there.

You should check to see of the CFR Number for the jeep was ever stamped onto the drivers side front frame, just aft of the bumper assembly and see if it matches what appears painted on the sides. Post what you find and also the serial number from the data plates if they have survived on the dash. Somebody here might know something.

Also look for changes in the font style of the CFR Number on the sides. Original and first few years of service had Roman style font with lots of curves. Then a slightly smaller Gothic font was adopted with all straight edged numbers, and that ran right up until disposal of the fleet. Also check the flat sides of the hood closely for signs of the CFR Number having been applied there. It was not always on the sides.


David

[Ed Storey]

The M38CDN Ambulance was in service until at least 1970, as one is in this photograph of Canadian vehicles being loaded onto HMCS Bonaventure.

[David Dunlop]

Wow! Good to know, Ed.

Any idea when they were introduced?

That looks a bit like the old Mobile Command decal on the lower right side of the windscreen.


David

[Ed Storey]

Photographs show the M38CDN Ambulance in use from the mid-1950s. Yes, that is a Mobile Command formation sign on the Jeep, although in this case the Canadian units involved had been on a ACE Mobile Force exercise in Europe.

[Dan Martel]

I've attached the relevant page from Vehicle Markings 1947 which gives the in-use Arm of Service serial number and background for an Infantry Brigade Group. Artillery AoS were assigned serial numbers 13, 14 and 15 on a red-over-blue background. Serial 13 was for the RCA Field Regiment, while serials 14 and 15 were artillery spares or 'alternatives.' I have photographs of the 1st Surface-to-Surface Missile Battery using serial 14, but I have no idea which RCA unit would have used serial 15.

But, hey... I have so much stored on my hard-drive, I'll probably stumble upon it some day.

[Ed Storey]

Just to make things interesting, these markings changed in 1949 and again in 1963.

[derk derin]

Here are a couple pictures of a members M38 Jeep ambulance from @2005 era.
Interesting to note that the spare tire is mounted on the passenger rear side of the vehicle and not on the hood. Did they relocate the spare tire to the hood later for a narrower vehicle width for shipping or was it just mounted incorrectly?

[Ed Storey]

Good question, while I do not have a copy of the modification instructions, photographic evidence suggests that moving the spare tire onto the hood was part of the conversion.

[Wayne Hingley]

From a 1954 document. Configuration is aligned with the two images shared by Ed (fuel can stowage on right rear, and spare tire on hood).

[David Dunlop]

If I recall correctly, the owner of the restored ambulance here in town put the spare on the side rather than the hood because he wanted to maintain ease of putting the windscreen assembly down for summer drives.

The vehicle was restored and in the Charleswood area of town for a number of years and then disappeared.



David

[donjunior]

Does anyone have pictures of the spare tire hood mount used on the CDN M38 (without the spare mounted)? Was it unique to the Canadian Army? Is the piece on the cowl on my M38 not part of this mount?

[Wayne Hingley]

There are photos on this forum somewhere that show a little better view of that bracket, but still not a great amount of detail. I think it was in a discussion related to M38s with the 106RR mounted (same hood bracket). The main triangular piece is made of wood, I believe. And yes, the piece on your cowl is part of it.

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

The following information is NOT specific to Canadian Jeep Ambulances. However, it could be useful to have a look at anyway.

Steve Turchet (Updated: Sep 23, 2021; Original: Mar 20, 2019 wrote the following article for Military Trader Vehicles ...

"Willys to the Rescue! Military Jeep Ambulances: A salute to the various types of jeep ambulances manufactured by Willys Overland and Kaiser Jeep that spanned the decades between WWII and the Vietnam War"

The article is loaded with photographs of Jeep ambulances. The article also outlines a link to General Motors Holden to modify Jeeps as ambulance for the Pacific theater.

On the Pacific front, the jeep’s capabilities as an ambulance were quickly recognized by the U.S. Marine Corps. The General Motors-Holden factory in Melbourne, Australia, modified Marine jeeps for dedicated ambulance use. Today, these specialized ambulances are referred to as “Holden Jeeps.”

Click on the link to the Australian War Memorial https://www.awm.gov.au. Then look in the top right hand corner for the "search". Clicking on this will bring you to the Search page and then type in the keywords Jeep Ambulance and there is a range of over 100 photographs, more than 5 films and some drawings. Just be aware that the keyword search does not always bring precise results. Sometimes there may be results that feature a Jeep and later on an Ambulance that could be an ambulance bus.

Just had a quick search on YouTube and found a link that explains the Australia contracts for modifying the Jeep ambulances NMMC WWII Iwo Jima Ambulance Jeep accessed 24th January 2025 from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ9ZSBdfUks

Unless you like seeing a film of the tyres of different military vehicles drive by - skip to the 2:00 minute mark of this video ... WWII USMC Holden ambulance jeep on Iwo Jima COLOR (silent) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDBxvT54ZOc

Enjoy!

Kind regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

After some digging I did manage to find photographs that describe a photograph of This GPW of the Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps (RCAMC) accessed 24th January 2025 from, https://cj3b.info/Fire/MilitaryAmbulances.html

This webpages features a number of photographs RCAMC ambulances. There is also another link embedded within the webpage that leads to "another RCAMC ambulance".

I did find copies of some of the same photographs that are included on the Royal Canadian Medical Service Association website. https://www.royalcdnmedicalsvc.ca/ab...world-war-two/ This might prove to be a great place to see if any of their members have any photographs of Jeep ambulances that were taken by their relatives while they served and were kept in the family.

Enjoy!

Kind regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

The English had an airborne version of a medical Jeep. Click on the link to see photographs of them British Airborne medical jeep, circa 1944. Interestingly the spare tyre is mounted in front of the radiator. Accessed 24th January 2025 from,
http://www.spanglefish.com/16parachu...?pageid=213441

I have an Australian Army 1963 Land Rover Series 2A Ambulance so I have strong interest in military ambulances.

Kind regards
Lionel

[David Dunlop]

Yes, the tire mount is a wooden assembly. The triangular frame is built of square cut, 2 x 2, or slightly less size, true dimensional lumber like you used to be able to purchase as standard lumber up until the mid-1950's, when the industry dumbed the sizes down in order to get more board feet of lumber out of any given tree, but still charged us the same amount.

One side of the frame has a board fitted across the centre half which carries the load of the spare assembly and the whole thing is drilled for various hardware.

I will see if I can get you some photos this weekend.

The Prairie Command member who restored one of these vehicles in the 90's was a Jim Wilson if I remember correctly and he moved out of Winnipeg, hence the disappearance of the vehicle.


David

[donjunior]

Thanks, David, that would be greatly appreciated.

[rob love]

The spare tire on the hood was used on other installation kits for the M38 Jeeps. Some that comes to mind are the recoiless rifle and the line layer variants. I have had a few of the wooden brackets with the spare tire mount, and the wood was more like a 1x4 or 1x3.
I have the ambulance modification instruction, but rather than go into detail, it just says to order two kits (the stretcher rack and the support kit) and follow the instructions contained within those kits.
I had an ex-ambulance M38 about a dozen years back, and it had some holes under the passenger side seat through the toolbox for ducting for a gas heater installation, along with a grill on the outside body going into the tool box.
See here for more info re the hood mounting: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ight=ambulance
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...996#post115996

There is this thread where I asked about some extra holes and brackets in an M38 I had. Peter Simondson said three holes on the sides of the body just behind the driver and codriver were for the stretcher racks. I see yours has the same 3 holes.
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=14896

[rob love]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

JD
The odds are your M38CDN was never an ambulance in in RCHA Service.
David

There is actually a very good chance that the ambulance would have been out of an artillery unit. According to the 1960 War Establishments manual, there were a total of 5 in each field regiment. Every Battery had one, as well as the headquarters having 2.

I recall seeing the ambulance version of the Iltis at the local militia armoury. It would almost seem like the use of the light amb in the artillery battery (militia) perpetuated.

[donjunior]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to post their thoughts regarding my M38.

Based on your comments and photos, I believe this M38 was likely an ambulance at one point. The hood-mounted spare tire and relocated jerry can point in that direction. It would also appear from the manual cover posted by Wayne H. that the tailgate remained in place during the ambulance conversion. The tailgate looks original to the jeep and someone took the time to put bolts back into the jerry can and spare tire mount holes (the paint on these bolts matches the rest of the jeep). Several additional holes were drilled into the tailgate both top and bottom (part of the ambulance conversion?). This jeep also had a hot water heater kit.

Finally, the overall condition of the jeep is quite remarkable. It has two small dents, one crease you can see on the left rear corner and another dent on the lower left front fender. The floors are not wavey and the rear fender wells are pristine (no dents nor holes). There is also no significant rust other than surface rust where the paint was worn away. From my experience, ambulances had a pretty easy life and were normally stored indoors.

I brought her into the shop last weekend for a mechanical evaluation. In addition, I will start removing some of the layers of paint, hopefully getting down to the original semi-gloss OD. I don't think I will try to source all of the ambulance kit (good canvas would likely be impossible to find), but I will keep the spare on the hood and the jerry can on the right rear corner.

I will post updates...

[rob love]

The 4 digits on the bumperette are the census code. I have the list of codes at home and that would verify it as an ambulance, but all the existing holes pretty much already make that a certainty.

[donjunior]

Originally Posted by rob love

The 4 digits on the bumperette are the census code. I have the list of codes at home and that would verify it as an ambulance, but all the existing holes pretty much already make that a certainty.

It would be pretty neat to have that confirmation, thanks Rob.

[Ed Storey]

Not to get too deep into the weeds with respect to Canadian post-SWW vehicle markings but from my list, the ECC for a M38CDN with Stretcher Rack Kit was 121106 and 121107 for a M38CDN w/winch. So 2236 on the bumperette would be ECC 122236 which falls within the ¾ ton M series of vehicles and could indicate a replacement from another vehicle.

I think I am seeing black behind the 2236 which leads me to believe that this is actually a pair of arm of service markings painted on top of each other. According to the 1963 list of AoS codes, a white 22 on a black square designates a RCAMC Feild Ambulance which fits for an Ambulance Jeep.
If the background is a dark blue, then from the 1949 list of AoC codes, then 36 designated an Engineer Regiment.

It also appears to me that the other bumperette has the remains of a yellow maple leaf on red square formation sign of the 1st Canadian Division.

There is always a bit of vehicle archeology involved when trying to decypher the markings provided they are athentic and have not been altered by previous owners.