2pdr. Scope Questions?

[ChaseR83]

Hello,

I took a chance recently and picked up this scope for what seemed like a very fair price.

It was advertised as the 2pdr. scope from a Matilda, which I'm not sure is true... but the reticle is marked 2pdr on the LT side. Can anybody tell me type of 2pdr. would be fitted with this optic?

Was there any manual printed for care and maintenance on cannon optics? The reticle is very sharp but the lenses are definately fogged up with dust and dirt. Would the scope have had a rubber eye cup on it?

And does anybody have any advice to help preserve the carry case? It is a bit dirty and dry.

Thank you.

[Ron Pier]

That looks similar to the scope on my 2 pounder AT gun (British) They were also made in slightly different variations in Australia and Canada. My scope is about 15 1/2" without the eye piece.

I use Neatsfoot type oils on my leather parts.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185383936...EAAOSw6FliVqMO

Ron

[rob love]

There was a quantity of the eyecups sold in a lot at the recent auction, and more sprinkled throughout the auction lots. They do not seem to have surfaced on ebay yet, so may well be stashed away in someone else's inventory.

I managed to get 3 or 4 in a lot of other misc items. None for sale unfortunately...I have that many scopes that need them.

[ChaseR83]

Thank you for the replies,

Has anybody tried to disassemble one of these scopes for cleaning? I assume that they are not nitrogen filled like later rifle scopes?

[rnixartillery]

I think I have a few of the black Eye cups left if anyone needs one.

Rob.................rnixartillery

[ChaseR83]

Originally Posted by rnixartillery

I think I have a few of the black Eye cups left if anyone needs one.

Rob.................rnixartillery

I'd be interested in one if you don't mind shipping across the pond...

[Mike Cecil]

Can't quite read the nomenclature on the scope in the image.

The 2-pdr in the Matilda used either a No.30 or No.33 telescope, or in Aust, the No.133 (Aust) Mk.1.

The 2-pdr A/T used the No.24B Mk.3 scope or, in Australia, the No.124 (Aust) Mk.1 Scope.

The 25-pdr also listed the No.24B Mk.3 and the No.124 (Aust) Mk.1 as alternatives.

As marked, this is an Australian scope manufactured by J.W. Handley Pty Ltd in Victoria, Australia. Company also manufactured dial sights and other optics. It is dated 1941, so most likely for the 2-pdr A/T or 25-pdr guns. Matilda didn't start arriving in Aust until first half of 1942.

Mike

[ChaseR83]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Can't quite read the nomenclature on the scope in the image.

The 2-pdr in the Matilda used either a No.30 or No.33 telescope, or in Aust, the No.133 (Aust) Mk.1.

The 2-pdr A/T used the No.24B Mk.3 scope or, in Australia, the No.124 (Aust) Mk.1 Scope.

The 25-pdr also listed the No.24B Mk.3 and the No.124 (Aust) Mk.1 as alternatives.

As marked, this is an Australian scope manufactured by J.W. Handley Pty Ltd in Victoria, Australia. Company also manufactured dial sights and other optics. It is dated 1941, so most likely for the 2-pdr A/T or 25-pdr guns. Matilda didn't start arriving in Aust until first half of 1942.

Mike

I pulled it back out and checked it, it's a No. 124 L.P. Mk.1 scope

[Mike Cecil]

Good: early nomenclature for the No.124 (Aust) Mk.1. The LP stands for 'Local Pattern' ie Australian design or modified for Australian manufacture. 'LP' was dropped by early 1942, replaced by 'Aust'.

Mike

[Ron Pier]

Great information Mike! Mine is a No39 MK 2S? Clearly not correct for the gun as it says 6 pounder up by the cross hairs Ron

[Mike Cecil]

You'll have the 6-pdr owners after you now, Ron, wanting to do a deal!

The markings on the Aust sight are interesting, at least to me. The D/i\D marking is Department of Defence, which technically didn't exist in 1941 - it was the Department of Defence Co-ordination. The Army was the Department of the Army, and the department which actually issued the production order to JW Handley was the Department of Munitions, (specifically the Ordnance Production Directorate through the Victorian Board of Area Management). The spec for the 2-pdr sights were issued by the Army before June 1940 when the Dept of Munitions came into existence.

Leads me to look at later type sights to compare the markings.

Mike

[tankbarrell]

No 39 is 6 pdr tanks though, not 6 pdr anti tank guns. They use a No 22.

[Mike Cecil]

Thanks Adrian, always good to learn these details.

Not a sight with an Aust equivalent.

Mike

[Damien Allan]

I have owned a few of these scopes and probably 60% of a gun over the years, but have sold or traded them on due to the unlikelihood of ever owning a complete 2 Pr AT gun.

All scopes have been in the leather case as per the OP photos, and most made by the British Optical Co. of Sydney. The J W Handley ones are a bit rarer in my sample.

Given my ownership history in relation to 2Pr AT, this set up a quantum probability function that collapsed as soon as I sold my last 124 scope. The rather unlikely outcome was a 90% complete gun suddenly becoming available. Of course it is missing most of the T&E gear and a scope, which confirms that the 2Pr completion curse is diminished but still alive.

Having renewed cause to peruse the Australian published 2Pr IX/X Illustrated Parts List, it refers to different versions of the No.124 scope, being the:

124B Mk.IV (O.S.19.GA)
124B Mk.V (O.S.20.GA)
124C Mk.IV (O.S.18.GA)
124C Mk.V (O.S.21.GA)

The differences are hard to pick, as the illustrations are virtually identical, but appears to mainly be the difference between the diaphragm box cover, and associated grub screw on the Mk.V.

I was thinking that maybe the B and C types refer to SOC vs JWH made scopes? The differences in the IPL between B and C scopes is again the diaphragm box cover, which have different part numbers.

The other difference is the scope case. The IPL refers only to a steel case No.6 Mk.I rather than the leather case.
Is the steel case a faithful copy of the Brit / Canadian made cases?
Are there Australian makers marks on any of these steel cases?

JWH may have had the ability to do these judging by other scopes they made.

Is there a designation for the leather case?
I get the feeling that this might be the Australian Local Pattern?

As for the gun itself. I have managed to gather a few spares, but still hunting all of the elevation gear and most of the traverse gear. These seem to be the commonly missing parts due to the scrap metal industry, but any leads of parts of manufacturing drawings / patterns would be appreciated.

cheers, Damien