Kangaroo Photos wanted

[Hanno Spoelstra]

A couple more of which I think we have not seen before. Pictures were taken at 't Woold near Winterswijk, and are dated 31 March 1945. According to the source, a fierce fight was fought at 't Woold during which several dozens of German and English soldiers died. Looks like at least four Kangaroos were knocked out.


Temporary graves after "the battle for 't Woold".

Source: http://www.bevrijdingskinderen.nl/bevrijd/1/index.htm

Additional details are welcome!

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Temporary graves after "the battle for 't Woold".

Another shot of the same Kangaroo, from the facebook page of Oud Woold:

17122_1065873936775635_2619617707946966723_n.jpg

Plus one more then & now picture.

H.

[tankmodeler]

Hanno,

Wow! Great photos and showing very interesting details on each. The colour still shows a Kangaroo, but with at least two grab bars welded to the hull as visible in the photo. Normal wisdom has it that these were only on the Wallaby ammo carriers, but apparently at least some Brit 'Roos had them added in the field.

The B&W photos show what had to be an absolutely rare beast, A Kangaroo made from a Ram with the Wright version of the radial engine (the external mufflers are the giveaway). Given that these needed 100 Octane gas, they would have been a bear to find gas for in the field with everything else using 87 octane. Would not have thought any were converted to 'Roos for that reason, especially given the supply situation in late 44.

Thanks for posting them!

Paul

[David Herbert]

Paul,
Yes you are quite correct, the above Ram is one of the first 247 that were built with the Wright R975/EC2. The exhaust and air cleaner arrangement changed at the same time as the change to Continental R975/C1 engines. However by that point in the war it is very likely that tanks of this age that had mostly been used for training in the UK, would have had the engine changed, possibly more than once. It would be very easy to exchange the exhaust manifolds as the fittings are all the same. No change would be needed to the inlet side as the carb is externaly identical so the intake pipes would plug straight on. One of the good things with this family of engines is that many parts are interchangeable across different versions so engines could be updated to some extent.

David

[tankmodeler]

David,

I certainly would have thought that the engines would have been changed, but I thought one of the reasons that the exhausts came inside and the air cleaners went outside was that the arrangements of the piping were different enough that the changes had to be made. I know that Rams in Canada that were built with the Wright and later changed to the Continental all had the air cleaners and exhausts relocated with plugs welded into the holes in the rear engine plate.

We'll probably never know, of course, but in any case these would be special vehicles with special maintenance needs and thus are interesting to see in the field.

Paul

[David Herbert]

Paul,
The tanks in the UK with plugs welded into the exhaust holes in the rear plates are vehicles after Shop number 247 that were BUILT with the later exhaust arangement but were using up stocks of the earlier plates, which had been fully machined and at that point in the war could not be wasted. There must have been quite a few of these as I have seen at least six on ranges in the UK including tanks without side doors. It was much more common on (I think) the LH plate than the RH (could have been the other way round) so there were tanks with one side with a welded hole but the other plain. Relatively late in the war the early Rams being used for training in Canada were remanufactured with various late fittings. I have not seen how the exhaust openings in the rear plate were plugged but the 'production' ones were pieces of plate the same thickness as the main plate, welded in flush from both sides. When painted they probably would not show in photos at all.

In terms of the exhaust and inlet fittings on the actual engines, R975/EC2 and C1s are identical. It is only the exhaust manifolds that are different, and then only to line up with the different type of mufflers. They are entirely interchangeable. The early arangement was intended to keep all the parts under armour. When it was decided that access for maintainence and better (bigger) aircleaners were more importaint the latter design was adopted. Although it happened at the same time as the change from EC2 to C1 it need not have done though as the C1s were supplied with the later manifolds it was obviously better to make the change then.

David

[tankmodeler]

Originally Posted by David Herbert

In terms of the exhaust and inlet fittings on the actual engines, R975/EC2 and C1s are identical. It is only the exhaust manifolds that are different, and then only to line up with the different type of mufflers. They are entirely interchangeable. The early arangement was intended to keep all the parts under armour. When it was decided that access for maintainence and better (bigger) aircleaners were more importaint the latter design was adopted. Although it happened at the same time as the change from EC2 to C1 it need not have done though as the C1s were supplied with the later manifolds it was obviously better to make the change then.

David

Great to know,. I was under the impression that the arrangement of the piping and ducting in the C1s was sufficiently different that their air cleaners _had_ to be moved outside, so a tank with the internal air cleaners would _have_ to be fitted with the Wright. Cool to find out this isn't true. Thanks a bunch!

Paul

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hello Paul,

Glad you like the pictures.

Originally Posted by tankmodeler

Wow! Great photos and showing very interesting details on each. The colour still shows a Kangaroo, but with at least two grab bars welded to the hull as visible in the photo. Normal wisdom has it that these were only on the Wallaby ammo carriers, but apparently at least some Brit 'Roos had them added in the field.

Normal wisdom is right, the rungs or hand rails were not fitted to Kangaroos. But in practice, Gun Towers were converted into Armoured Personnel Carriers (see Mark Tonner's recent articles on this subject), of which the hand rails and rear towing hook were not removed. So externally at least they still looked like Gun Towers, but were in facts APCs.

The B&W photos show what had to be an absolutely rare beast, A Kangaroo made from a Ram with the Wright version of the radial engine (the external mufflers are the giveaway). Given that these needed 100 Octane gas, they would have been a bear to find gas for in the field with everything else using 87 octane. Would not have thought any were converted to 'Roos for that reason, especially given the supply situation in late 44.

I understand your excitement, but I cannot see such a special vehicle with special maintenance needs surviving in the field in 1944.

As pointed out by David Herbert - a veritable Ram expert I might add - chances are that this late during the war, Wright R975-EC2 engines would have been replaced by R975-C1 (or -C4) radial engines, simply because they would no longer be supported by the supply system. And changing them over was relatively easily: if not during conversion, then by the time the original R975-EC2 was worn out, it would have to be replaced by a -C1, simply because EC-2's were no longer to be had from store supplies.

Hanno

[John McGillivray]

Look at this Canadian Newsreel at the 7:57 time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vvVsVU2KhE

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

A couple more of which I think we have not seen before. Pictures were taken at 't Woold near Winterswijk, and are dated 31 March 1945. According to the source, a fierce fight was fought at 't Woold during which several dozens of German and English soldiers died. Looks like at least four Kangaroos were knocked out.

Colourised photo from:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/miss...71622#p1671622

3B0A89F5-8C1F-491B-A487-AED6531E84DD.jpeg

[kevinT]

Hi Hanno here are a few more Kangaroos from 49th APCR

Blackpool
Captor
Comet
King John
Mars
Merlin
Neptune
Raider
Revenge
Rotherham
Spear
Tapir
Todmorden

[kevinT]

Pictures only

[kevinT]

These come various sources, IWM, Bill and Barry Miller to name just a few.

Cheers

Kevin

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Thanks for the extensive selection, Kevin.

Here is a write up on the Battle at ‘t Woold I made for the Sherman Register page a while ago:

On 30 March 1945, ‘F’ Squadron of British 49th Armoured Personnel Carrier Regiment lifted infantry of the Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry Regiment into action. The British Kangaroo Regiment had just added a third fighting Squadron of Kangaroos the week before, converting 52nd Royal Tank Regiment to ‘F’ Squadron 49APCR. The inexperienced troop met stiff resistance at ‘t Woold, near Winterswijk, The Netherlands.

Eight of their Ram Kangaroos were knocked as well as a Stuart Tank that was leading the column. First disabling the leading Stuart, then the rearmost Kangaroo. The column of armour, traveling on a raised roadbed near the village of Winterswijk, was picked off one by one by a lone German ’StuG III’ 75mm tank destroyer. Only one Kangaroo in the column managed to escape.

It was the inexperienced troop’s first taste of combat which resulted in one Kangaroo crewman killed (Cpl. Webber) as well as several infantrymen of the Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry. Some burned alive in the disabled Kangaroos.

With credits to:
- the Canadian Kangaroo Regiment Association and Archives for the historic background
- and Klaas Meijer (@klaasm67) for the pictures.


176B4D4F-357B-424B-A8EB-62B868C48E51.jpeg AF7862A9-FA47-41FC-9BCF-26D19654E310.jpeg 6C3F76E3-8A9D-47E2-873F-82759975A8C8.jpeg

[Jakko Westerbeke]

Interesting, a Stuart VI in that last picture, you don’t see that many photos of those in Commonwealth service, AFAIK.

[kevinT]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Thanks for the extensive selection, Kevin.

Here is a write up on the Battle at ‘t Woold I made for the Sherman Register page a while ago:

The first photo looks to a Ram Kangaroo named TARANTULA. I cannot make out anything on the second and the Stuart seems to end T???212.
Can anyone make out anything else.

Cheers

Kevin

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by kevinT

Hi Hanno here are a few more Kangaroos from 49th APCR

Blackpool
Captor
Comet
King John
Mars
Merlin
Neptune
Raider
Revenge
Rotherham
Spear
Tapir
Todmorden

Kevin,

Do you have a listing for TYRANT?

9B02BDA5-B70E-4FB2-9840-26C464A5861A.jpeg

[kevinT]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Kevin,

Do you have a listing for TYRANT?

Attachment 128924

Hi Hanno,

Only the census CT 160052 and was part of F Squadron.

Cheers

Kevin

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by kevinT

Only the census CT 160052 and was part of F Squadron.

Hi Kevin, thank you!

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by kevinT

Hi Hanno,

Only the census CT 160052 and was part of F Squadron.

Cheers

Kevin

Nice work on the model, Kevin!

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

TARANTULA also appears in a colorized video on youtube, shot at 't Woold: “Liberation Route East Holland in full-color - April 1945" - https://youtu.be/zgiqBwVWcKk

Attachment 128967

This is a clear example of why I don't like colorized black and white footage.......someone made a guesstimate about the colour of the RAM.....brown, green? Or was it red?

[Ed Storey]

I agree with Alex, I despise colourized photographs as I consider them to be nothing more then a guess by the 'artist'. They actually distract from the historical record and unfortunately now show up everywhere with little to no information stating that the image has been altered. The worst thing is that the museum community, the people who should know better, have bought into the colourization process.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by kevinT

Only the census CT 160052 and was part of F Squadron.

I posted this photo of TYRANT CT-160052 to which Bill Miller replied:
E05F1D8C-211F-4977-9720-D999350DBF43.jpg


“After the battle... Tyrant is one of 7 kangaroos of F Squadron, 49APCR knocked out. All named beginning with 'T' (Tarmois, Tapir, Taunt, Tarantula, Tiger, Tyrant & Terror).”
1217CE78-5C8C-43CD-9D4B-AB42CF3C8EA7.jpeg

[kevinT]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

I posted this photo of TYRANT CT-160052 to which Bill Miller replied:
Attachment 130087


“After the battle... Tyrant is one of 7 kangaroos of F Squadron, 49APCR knocked out. All named beginning with 'T' (Tarmois, Tapir, Taunt, Tarantula, Tiger, Tyrant & Terror).”
Attachment 130088

TARMOIS, TAUNT, TIGER and TERROR are all new to me, are there any photos of these?

Cheers

Kevin