new 9.00-16 tyres for WD split rim wheels

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Although this subject seems to have been beaten to death, some people still think the problem of fitting US tires on British/Canadian WD 16" split rims is due to the 5º taper on the beads of the former versus the 0º taper on the latter. In the thread 9.00 X 16 U.S. versus British wheels Mike Kelly proved beyond any questions the real problem of fitting these tyres is in the fact that the bead diameter of the British/Canadian 16" tyres and rims are ¼" larger than those of US 16" tires and rims.

Now, MRF of India's 9.00-16 tyre has come up on this forum before: NDMS 9" x 16" tyre from india. It comes in two types: one "to fit flat base rim only" (6" wide rim), and to fit a 5º taper bead (6.5" wide rim) - see full specs below.

During the last Beltring show, I spoke to various dealers and restorers, and all agreed on the fact that the tyre with the "to fit flat base rim only" lettering on the side will properly fit British/Canadian WD 16" split rims, and are too large to fit on US rims.
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/at...8&d=1076488599

So, if you are looking to buy a set of properly fitting 9.00-16 tyres for your CMP truck, you know now there is at least one option for new tyres.

Hope this helps,
Hanno
http://www.mapleleafup.nl/cmpvehicles/tyres_900-16.html

[Hanno Spoelstra]

These tyres have turned up in Holland and Australia; now there is a hope for CMP owners in Canada, too.

Originally posted by Phil Innes Phill Innes F15A with Chev axels
Found a place that sells the MRF tires found in posts here. MDF Tire Canada inc. sells them. Haven't heard back from them yet. Don't know if there is anyone else in Canada.

Here is MDF Tire Canada's web page showing the NDMS tyre specs. MDF Tire Canada is a wholesale distributor of MRF Tyres, not sure where the distributors are located.

[Paul Singleton]

This pages shows 9:00-13!

http://www.mdftire.com/groupSearchRe..._subcatDesc=29

It doesn't say if the tires are road legal though.

[Dan Sicotte]

This issue is right out of her! I put Michelin XL on my ferret which has British Dunlop split rims.....like CMPs and I have had NO PROBLEMS!!!! 0 Degree, or 5 degree, it didn't change a thing, and have put 300 miles on them.
It just seems like something to squabble about. Padantasism is not good for the blood pressure.

Dan Sicotte

[Tony Smith]

Well, no Dan, it's a safety issue. The Ferret, like any Land Rover with 6.5in rims are made to post-war british standards, which are aligned with the WW2 US specs. You will find that the Post war Brit rims are 6.50H rims. If you were to fit a WW2 British tyre to your Ferret it would be loose fit on the rim and liable to spin, ripping out your valve stem. Fitting a Ferret tyre to a WW2 WD rim would be stretching the tyre onto the rim, causing difficulty in removing it by hand, and inviting catastrophic tyre failure while driving.
While a tyre manufacturer like MRF is manufacturing tyres with both types of bead size, it just makes good sense to select the right tyre that fits right the first time.

[Pete Ashby]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Well, no Dan, it's a safety issue.
it just makes good sense to select the right tyre that fits right the first time.

I agree Tony I have trucks with both types of rim the whole tyre debate has been real interest to me as although I have always suspected I was never sure of the details regarding bead angle and rim relationship.

Dan
I am very much of a mind that healthy debate is a thing to encourage, fortunately on this forum we don't squabble too much at all. On the rare occasion it has happened you'll recognise it

Regards

Pete

[Dan Sicotte]

No I didn't mean that it wasn't a safety issue. I of all people was concearned with the bead angle, and consulted the MLU threads many times. All I'm saying is that my Dunlop (post war) rims work very well with modern Military tires. Even with 4 tons on them. It just seems that the forum debates (discusses) the issue a lot, and it goes back and to, back and to.....always saying the same thing. 0 degree tire beads with flat bead rims. 5 degree tire beads with U.S rims.

It was just an observation.
Dan

[Lynn Eades]

Because the forum is growing all the time, it's probably reasonable to expect that common questions occur fairly regularly. Not everyone is up with the play, on the search function, or the many other features of the forum,one of which is to not open a thread we have no interest in.
Dan, I hope this doesn't sound like I'm beating you up. Cheers.

[Dan Sicotte]

Naw, I think I didn't word my post correctly.
It's hard to interpret posts, when you don't know the person behind the screen. You could read "wow that's a nice beaver" a whole bunch of ways.

Dan

[Lynn Eades]

Where?

[Lang]

Going over some stuff from the eternal discussion subject.

The MRF tyres being brought into Australia (and selling like hot cakes) all have "For Flat Rims" on them ie British WW2 types. The majority of them though have probably gone onto Dodges.

Nobody to my knowledge has had the slightest trouble. I have done over 5,000km in my Carryall with MRF "flat rim" tyres most of it going like a rocket (well, at least faster than CMP's) on long trips and found them to be outstanding for both grip and wear characteristics.

At easter we went to Fraser Island (the world's largest sand island). I dropped the pressure to 12 pounds and spent 4 days with the sidewalls bagged out grinding through sand and wheel spinning to get up steep soft tracks. There was not the slightest movement or creep of the tyres on the rims. I think the difference in the angle of the bead of the tyres is the stamp on the sidewall!

The 9.00x13 MRF's are road legal but have a very serious heavy "tractor-like" tread on them- much more severe than military pattern. Might be OK for the little CMP's but if you put them on a staff car it would be like driving along a railway line.

lang

[Stewart Loy]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
MDF Tire Canada is a wholesale distributor of MRF Tyres, not sure where the distributors are located.

Hanno and the rest of the gang,

I have made contact with the MRF dealer in Mississauga, Ontario. He tells me that he will contact India following a holiday Tuesday and Wednesday, and get back to me with price and availibility of tires in Canada.

My query was for 9.00 - 16 and 11.00x20 NDMS tires ( that look a lot like ND to me ) along with tubes and flaps. I also asked whether these tires were certified for use on Canadian motorways, as well as if there were any issues with flat or 5 degree beads on the rims.

I will wait breathlessly by the phone until he calls me back.



Stewart

[Lang]

Srewart,

The MRF tyres like your attached photo are identical in appearance to the traditional brands. NDMS just stands for non directional mud and snow.

The importers into Australia (Agtyre at Moree) made enquiries for me some time ago about the 5 degree type mentioned in the MRF catalog. MRF said they still had them on their books but did not carry them but would do a run if there were sufficient orders - didn't say what were sufficient!

For our purposes, as I mentioned above, there seems no point in going to all that trouble because the readily available flat rim style are more than satisfactory.

In Bhutan earlier this year I noticed new Indian Army trucks with several sizes of traditional ND tread on them - all MRF.

Lang

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Lang
I think the difference in the angle of the bead of the tyres is the stamp on the sidewall!
(...)
For our purposes, as I mentioned above, there seems no point in going to all that trouble because the readily available flat rim style are more than satisfactory.

Lang, good to hear your positive experiences with the MRF brand of tyres.

However, I do want to stress the point that MRF manufactures two different types of 9.00-16 NDMS tyres:

1) "to fit flat base rim only" (6" wide rim). This tyre has a 0º bead taper, but more importantly, a ¼" larger bead diameter than the tyre listed under 2).
- These fit British/Canadian WD 16" split rims without any hassle like trimming the bead or turning down the rim.
- And yes, they also fit US 16" rims as on the Dodge WC series. However, I know of one case where a Dodge WC owner fitted the tyre to its rim while standing up. This resulted in the tyre not sitting centered on the rim, and thus a very bumpy ride. The owner solved this by having the tyre turned down, resulting in a tyre circumference perfectly centered to the rim but with no profile remaining on one side of the tyre! Of course it was fittted wrongly, but I can imagine the same sort of thing can happen when inflating a completely flat tyre while the wheel is fitted to the truck.

2) to fit a 5º taper bead (6.5" wide rim). This tyre has a 5º bead taper, but more importantly, a ¼" smaller bead diameter than the tyre listed under 1).
- So these tyres do not fit British/Canadian WD 16" split rims, besides when tampering with either the tyre or the rim.
- But yes, they do fit US 16" rims without a problem.

Funnily enough, it seems manufacturer is currently not carrying the 5º taper bead type, therefore the tyres made for CMPs and the like are snapped up by Dodgy drivers

This difference in tyre bead diameter is only an issue with 16"wheels, not 13" and 20".

So Stewart, when ordering 9.00-16 MRF tyres for your CMP, make sure to get the type "to fit flat base rim only" (6" wide rim),

I hope this settles this issue for once and all.

Regards,
Hanno

[Stewart Loy]

Hanno writes “I hope this settles this issue for once and all.”

I suspect that it will take more than this to settle it!

I figured that I would get a hold of these guys and find out if they could
supply tires for the C15A. I know that I can call and order tires from
folks in the US, but shipping and brokerage fees add up, and it will be a
hassle to drive to the nearest US port to pile them into the pickup and
haul them back across the border. If there is a source of tires in Canada
why not use it?

On 23Oct06 I tried the site referenced. It lead me to call them at (604)
592-6557. My call was answered with “Hello - how did you get this number?”
I told the fellow that I wanted to buy some tires and was half-heartedly
directed to a distributor in Mississauga ( Toronto ). Good for them – that
is only 45 minutes away.

Here is the letter that I sent to ask about tires for CMP trucks:

Sir,
>
> This is a follow up to our conversation regarding military service tires.
>
> I would like price and availability in Canada for the following:
>
> 1) 11.00 - 20 NDMS 14 and 16 ply tires. I will also need a tube and flap
> for each: Flap code 20RR. Tube code TR 78A.
>
> 2) 9.00 - 16. I do not know what the difference in the rims is - 6.00T or
> 6.50H. can you elaborate? My rims have a 5 degree bead. I also need a
flap
> and tube for each. Flap code 16 M or 16 N Tube code TR 76A DBV.
>
>
> I understand that these tires come from India. Are they certified to be
> used on highway in Canada? What sort of delivery times are normal?
>
> Thank you,
>
>
> Stewart Loy
> Beachville, Ontario


I called the number in the GTA (905) 612-6663 and was not sure where I had
been connected with – kids in the background and washing machine noises.
The distributor, Rajinder, said that he can get any size tire that I
wanted from the Indian company, but it was a big holiday in the
subcontinent and he could not give a price or comment on availability until
after the festivities were wrapped up. Fair enough.

I called and/or e-mailed Raj on 09Nov06, 16Nov06, 24Nov06, 27Nov06, and
05Dec06. Raj promised to sit down and get me prices by the end of the week
– as he had R&D folks in from the tire factory doing North American
evaluations.

I have received no return to the e-mails or calls. I expect that I will
not, and am not holding my breath in anticipation of any. I will do these
guys the favour of sending them a note that indicates where to look on MLU
to see why nobody from the military vehicle restoration scene is calling
them ( although it appears they do not care).

I am not sure what ‘business’ these guys are really in, but it appears to
me that selling tires isn’t it.


Stewart



Here are the folks in the USA who offer ‘military’ tires:


http://www.alfaheaven.com/Military%2...ies/Tires.html

http://www.lucasclassictires.com/

http://www.stausaonline.com/military/ndt.html

http://www.tirewiz.com/jeep_tires.html

http://www.universaltire.com/cart.ph...ategory_id=342

http://www.wallacewade.com/products.htm

I have received responses from alfaheaven and tirewiz, so if you need
tires, the NDCC are available. Still no word on the old mold WW2 style
Dunlops, but I got tired of holding my breath.

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Stew..
Happy New Year to you and the lovely "Machine Gun" Mary..
Have you tried Bandag out of New Brunswick??..Maybe you could talk Uncle Willy into bringing a load up to Ottawa the next time he is here for a dose of culture at Gracies with the ROTers..
Here is the link..

http://www.provincialbandag.nb.ca/#otr%20retreading

[Bill Mulholland]

Alex;I'd be only too glad to bring some tires to Ottawa, but they're bloody hard to get into the overhead on WKA(white knuckle airlines).
Cheers, Bill

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by Bill Mulholland
Alex;I'd be only too glad to bring some tires to Ottawa, but they're bloody hard to get into the overhead on WKA(white knuckle airlines).
Cheers, Bill

Any dates Bill..??
We're getting antsey here..Gotta have a gather up soon..Gracies Girls got some new tatoos to show us ,I'll bet.
Clive should be ready for some new stories..
We may have to make a special trip to the "Barn"..
BooBee has the heat on ..
Am looking forward to your trip..You know the drill on arrival..

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Stewart Loy
Hanno writes “I hope this settles this issue for once and all.”

I suspect that it will take more than this to settle it!

At least it settled the debate which tyre type to use for your CMP's 16" split rim, and that this has nothing to do with bead taper, but everything with tyre bead diameter.

On how and where to acquire the right tire/tyre, I agree that will take more than the points made above to settle it.

> 2) 9.00 - 16. I do not know what the difference in the
>rims is - 6.00T or 6.50H. can you elaborate? My rims have a 5
>degree bead.

If those suppliers decide to actually supply you with tires in NA (which will be manufactured as tyres in India ), please make sure you order the 6.00T. You have 0 degree bead rims.

Good luck!

Hanno

[sapper740]

Stewart, et al: Twice in my MV restoring career I've had to purchase new NDT tyres, once for a '42GPW which I owned in Canada and recently for my C15 here in the U.S. Both times it was cheapest to purchase them from Wallace Wade in Dallas. His prices were unbeaten by anybody else. For the Jeep tyres I had them shipped to a friend just south of the border and I picked them up and brought them across the border myself. There was no hassle regarding D.O.T. certification since they were certified for highway use in the U.S. I did, however have to pay duty since the tyres would fit a vehicle currently driven, the Volkswagen Beetle. If there were no vehicles that the tyres would fit, I wouldn't have had to pay any duty. Last year I bought new tyres for my C15. After checking the prices of 3-4 tyre suppliers, it was readily apparent Wallace Wade was once again the cheapest. His 9:00X16's are made in America by S.T.A. (Specialty Tires of America) so there shouldn't be any safety concerns with D.O.T. in Canada. I paid $150.00 each for the tyres. If I had bought them two years ago before oil prices went up I could have had then for $88.00! Wallace Wade always includes tyre flaps for free. If anyone in Canada can save money and is interested in purchasing tyres from Mr. Wade, I'm willing to help with their purchase and shipping to Canada. I just ask that any out of pocket expenses be paid in advance since I've been stiffed by a member of MLU before regarding shipping an item to Canada.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Ad found on MilWeb:

9.00 x 16 NDSM tyres for British rims.I am contemplating commissioning a production batch of the above. These tyres will have "British" (ie flat) bead angle, are of good quality (I have driven a set for several thousand miles on my Humber 8cwt) look and drive the the part. They are non "E"marked which means they are legal only on pre 1980 vehicles. I have a minimum order to reach to make it worth commissioning the production. Price will be between £110 and £135 per tyre and I will be asking for half the price up front with the order and delivery will probably take three months with the balance due on collection. Delivery will be available (if wanted) at between £10 and £25 per order in the UK. If you are interested on the above basis please register your interest by emailing me If I receive enough interest I will send full details and an order form before Christmas.
16 November '10
Tobin Jones

You can reach Tobin Jones via his MLU profile

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Finding tyres to fit British wheels is not easy and various suppliers are doing their best to offer suitable tyres to owners of vehicles with these wheels.

ToTec Tyres in the UK - see http://www.totectyres.co.uk/military.aspx - was kind enough to supply a tyre to a MLU member for a test fitting. It turned out it had same bead diameter as the standard US rim, i.e. 15 3/4" rather than the wartime British size of 16". As with most 9.00-16 tyres manufactured for US wheels, it needed to have a small bit shaved off the bead to be able to fit it to a WD split rim.

No connection with the company, but as they went through the trouble of having a tyre test fitted, I think they are worthy of a mention here!

Hanno

[Edwin Wand]

Our recent experience trying to find suitable 900 16 tires may be helpful to others. We had to replace the tires on a Chev and Ford 15cwt. Both vehicles had Dunlop run flat tires but the sidewalls were cracked. The Ontario Ministry of Transport would'nt license them without new tires.

The rims were the original British/Canadian ones and despite a lot of effort we couldnt find the proper tires. Resigned to having to trim the bead, we ordered from Wallace Wade 900 16 tires made by Specialty Tires of America. We took them to an experienced tire installer (Enns in Niagara on the Lake) and with some effort they were able to install the tires without modification.

As a positive sidenote two of the tires had a manufacturering defect and were replaced easily and promptly by STA and Mr. Wade. We still have to replace other 900 16 tires on another vehicle and are hoping to find the correct ones somewhere.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Vrakking tyres offers some new and used 9.00-16 tyre options. I suspect these are for the standard US rim, i.e. 15 3/4" rather than the wartime British size of 16" diameter, but I thought it was worthwile to post them in this thread:

• 9.00-16 Simex sandrider 2 new
• 9.00-16 Military GG used
• 9.00-16 Firestone Nato
• 9.00-16 Dunlop Trac Grip

Did I read Dunlop Trak Grip?!?

No connection and/or experience with the company.

HTH,
Hanno

[rob love]

And for those who are anywhere near the US/Canada border, here is another option for the 10:50-16 chevron tires from STA, or any of the other 9:00 X 16 NDT tires from STA or Firestone. Lots of other tires available through them as well. Best of all, FREE SHIPPING in the USA. They price their tires about $10 or $20 higher than some of the others, but the shipping savings more than makes up for it.

http://www.performanceplustire.com/p...zeShort=900-16

http://www.performanceplustire.com/p...eShort=1050-16

I plan to use them on my next mil tire purchase.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Also see Milweb for the "Petlas NT3 tyre 900 X 16" (which no doubt is a 9.00-16 tyre):
http://www.milweb.net/classifieds/la...d=62160&cat=50

[Edwin Wand]

In July 2012, we (the Niagara Military Vehicle Association www.nmvac.org) had to replace tires on two M37's, one M43 and one 15cwt. All the tires were manufactured by Specialty Tires of America (STA) and were ordered through Wallace Wade. They were installed without trimming the bead, although they had to be well lubricated (the tires not the installers). We used STA NDT tires for the 15cwt and STA Superlug tires for the M37s/M43. The Superlug tires look good but more importantly we get a better ride and better road grip than with the NDT's. You can see a picture of the Superlug tires on Wallace Wade's STA web site

They were shipped to a Niagara Falls New York warehouse and after paying the HST at the border we brought them into Canada without any problems or additional expense. Because they are made in the US and are for antique cars there is no duty, just HST. It is much much cheaper to pick our orders up in the US than to have them delivered into Canada. If anyone is interested in the name of our warehouse manager, feel free to send a PM.

[Haridimos]

Looking for a new set of 900X16 tyres for my C8A I have to examine the option of the ToTec tyres in the UK. (http://www.totectyres.co.uk/military.aspx).

Hanno gave above the result of a real test fitting of a Totec tyre on a 16' inch rim.

Has anyone a similar experience or something to comment?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Haridimos

Looking for a new set of 900X16 tyres for my C8A I have to examine the option of the ToTec tyres in the UK. (http://www.totectyres.co.uk/military.aspx).

Hanno gave above the result of a real test fitting of a Totec tyre on a 16' inch rim.

Has anyone a similar experience or something to comment?

You may well have bought a new set of tyres by now. To whom it concerns, the 6-stud 16-inch wheel used on the C8A has a different diameter than the 8-stud 16-inch wheel used on 15- and 30-cwt truck.

Thus, 9.00-16 tyres for American wheels will fit perfectly on your C8A rims.

So much for standardization, eh?

Cheers,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

I am currently teaming up with a few KTR club members here in the Netherlands to source a batch of 9.00-16 tyres for 15-cwt CMP trucks.

ToTec Tyres is one option, apparently they have since sourced another type of tyre which does fit properly.
Also, Grays Automotive Services in the UK stocks Malhotra tyres which according to him and Sjoerd, who fitted them to his Morris C8, fit well on British split rims. John Gray is coming over to Holland in the next few weeks so I can do a test fitting here. WIll report the findings here.

All options available here to date seem to be NDCC "bar grip" pattern only. There is another wavy block pattern available as well, though we will have to see if that fits the split rims without problems.

Does anybody know of any other options available in Western Europe?

Thanks,
Hanno



Wavy block pattern as fitted to a 1936 Morris Commercial CS8: