first post

Poppy's Carrier · #1 12-12-06, 10:45

Seasons greetings my name is matt and i have recently aquired a bren gun carrier hull, which i intend to restore. I am currntly trying to decipher the hull number which appears to start with a ''S''there is a definate number on one of the front tow hooks and it is 283A, i have spoken to some people in regards to this number but it draws a blank?. I was hoping someone on the forum may be able to shed some light . I will try and post some photos soon. Cheers matt baker.

ron · #2 12-12-06, 11:28

Hello Matt Baker,
And welcome to the forum, that number is proberly the part number for the tow hook, and the other point that you raise about the S? if its in the rear compartment above the hole on the rear wall on the flat rail it may be part of the stamped name of South Australian railways, It would be nice to see a couple of pics when you have the time, good luck with your project,
Regards,
Ron,

Rob Dyba · #3 12-12-06, 11:58

Just up the road from me Matt. If you get stuck or need some advice give me a PM, glad to help. Is she rivetted or welded hull?, if the diff mounting on the rear plate is intact, the hull number will most likely be stamped in the strap that goes over the hole the diff pokes into the interior through, you'd better go look now, Salesman Bob will be onto you soon for a hull number...he is collecting what is looking to be the most up to date list of surviving carriers south of the equator.

Rob

Poppy's Carrier · #4 12-12-06, 21:39

Thankyou for the warm welcome firstly ron the''S''is on the metal strip above the diff but as usual on carriers it is rusty there appears to be SAR LP2 2?? as for the 283a being a part number i have a parts book which lists this part starting with a 5??/? i have misplaced this document for the moment . The carrier has a welded hull not riveted it has a flat gunners plate and the tool ces is on the left hand side it has a strange plate welded to the front floor of the hull between the drivers and gunners seat mounts i have not seen this on a carrier before? ,i am having difficulty with posting my photos as they are to big any ideas ?

cheers for now.

Tony Smith · #5 12-12-06, 22:07

How curious! The AWM registration numbers lists the hull number for a Metrpolitan Gasworks Carrier with the ARN 29865 as "284A".
I have not found any other records for hulls with a A suffix, and here you are with 283A!! All the other details you mention (the flat gunners plate for Vickers gun, tool stowed on the side, etc) point to this being an early LP2.

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #6 13-12-06, 12:09

You are right Rob, here I am.

Hello Matt and welcome. Your Carrier should be numbered between #285 - #299 as they were SAR LP2s.

Sporadic manufacturing records I hold suggest that Carriers #200 - #283 were 1941 VR LP2s with #203 going to New Zealand 29 May 1941 (source Mike Cecil). This is based on the modifications stated in one of the Pams -

1938 rear axle with 6.66to1 diff ratio 5/18 ratio speedo gears (5 tooth driving gear & 18 tooth driven gear)

Tony - your #284 is interesting and here are the modifications for it. But look they created a #284A. Did they also experiment with #283 and create a #283A.

Carrier #284 - 1938 rear axle 6.66to1 ratio, 5/18 ratio speedo gears (5 tooth driving gear & 18 tooth driven gear) (Carrier 284A had a 3/21 ratio speedo gear)

#285 - #299 had the same modifications as the previous ones with the addition of "a different wiring system.

Looking forward to that Hull Number.

Bob

Poppy's Carrier · #7 13-12-06, 21:18

Gday salesman bob i am still trying to decipher the number this will be a lot easier now i know it is between #285 to #299 as you can understand it was quite rusty the carrier is missing all of the running gear , you mention experiments /modifications could that explain the stange plate welded to the front floor between the driver & gunner it has holes tapped in it for the seats to mount to. It appears to be original and not a farm job ,also there is a strange plate where yhe vickers ammo box sits it also appears to be original? they may be from unit modifications? all a bit of a mystery do you have any carriers on the register between #285 to #299.

thanks for your time
matt baker

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #8 13-12-06, 22:07

Hi Matt

Yours, if my guess on the Hull Number is correct, will be the first with an owner in that number range. I would also be interested in all the data on the other plates. Time for the images to appear.

My Carrier database encompasses every Hull Number and where I can get details, e.g. current ownership, GTG (gone to God), modifications, original or current photographs, etc. I enter that against the Hull Number.

Bob

ron · #9 14-12-06, 10:41

Hi Matt,
Your South aussie carrier sounds very interesting< how complete is it Its good to see that they keep on turning up, can not wait to see some pics of it, you are not far from me, if I can help any time just give us a yell.
Regards,
Ron,

Keith Webb · #10 14-12-06, 11:04

Here are Matt's pics.

ron · #11 14-12-06, 11:47

Hi Keith,
Many thanks for the pictures of Matts S A R carrier, its a great start, The plates on the front floor are unusual. I will watch the progress with great interest,
Regards,
Ron,

Pedr · #12 14-12-06, 15:13

G'day Gentlemen,

Firstly, those plates on the floor in the driving compartment are not strange at all.

The plate where the Vickers ammo boxes are usually found, is infact an early model mounting plate for the bolt on type brackets. In this case they mount the Vickers ammo box bracket and the cover for the left hand side brake rod, where it passes under the gunner's feet.

Same goes for the plate between driver and gunner's seats. This plate also mounts the Vickers spare parts box and clutch and accelorator rod tunnel.

The round plate is the base for the gear selector stick.

Now to throw a cat amoungst pigeons;

It is possible that the hull number for this carrier - if it is infact SAR, is 2652, which, according to my correspondence had an SAR inhouse hull build number of 283a. However this would make the carrier an LP2A but with side mounted tools and a Vickers gun plate.

The nearest hull numbers that I am aware of to this are a range wreck at John Belfield's 2569 which isn't much help, and Ian Styles' 2704 which also has side mounted tools and a Vickers plate. Ian's is also an SAR manufactured carrier with in-house build number of 335a. So it would fit in with this train of thought.

What do you think guys??

Pedr

Tony Smith · #13 14-12-06, 17:15

Where is the "In-house" number stamped , if anywhere? I have thoroughly crawled around SAR LP2A 2539 and can find no other numbers. 2539 also has a vickers plate and side-mount tools.

And where does MetGas carrier 284A fit into this?

Pedr · #14 14-12-06, 19:41

Didn't know that "in-house" numbers were stamped anywhere.

I have only seen them written in chalk on the front plate, but I thought that it answered the 283a question if we were certain that it was an SAR carrier.

Otherwise 283 is VR, with the first SAR number allocated being 285.

I can't answer the question about "284A" as being MetGas. That one is still a puzzle to me. Unless that too refers to a build number.from MetGas.?????

It's interesting though that carriers either side of the number that I have suggested this hull may be, have both Vickers plates and side mounted tools but are all recorded as being LP2A's.

By the way, hull build number for 2539 is 170a, with no listed factory mods. Haven't been able to tie down production dates yet, but will work on it.

Interestingly, within the past couple of weeks over 50% of the buildings have been knocked down in SAR Islington Workshops - which is at the end of my street.

It was my hope to take local SAR carriers back there when restored and try to reinact wartime photo's. This will be all the more harder now as I have less buildings to find the originals from.

Pedr

Poppy's Carrier · #15 23-12-06, 23:09

Merry xmas all and sundry,

Firstly apologies for not replying sooner many thanks to you Pedr i have bought a supercheap sandblaster and had a small burst of success it is definately a sar carrier i am still trying to decipher the numbers but here is the updated version SAR AUS ???? ??? ??? there seems to be writing all the way along that bar ? any ideas

cheers matt

Pedr · #16 24-12-06, 15:20

Merry Christmas Folks,

Matty...Here's what you are looking for.

It should read:

STH AUS RLYS (your number) LP2A

Pedr

Poppy's Carrier · #17 25-12-06, 11:28

Finally i have an identity for my carrier many thanks to pedr for supplying that picture in his last threadwell here it is,

STH AUS RLYS 2564 LP2A

I guess i can stop doing this

now and have another beer to celebrate

can you guys provide some details now ie, ARN number etc and if possible service history GOD i love military history

cheers for now
matt baker

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #18 26-12-06, 11:03

Well done Matt, your Carrier now locked into my database. What is interesting is that I now have three close Carriers recorded, #2564, #2567 & #2569.

Bob

gjamo · #19 17-01-07, 22:50

Located near Yarrawonga hull only no mechcanicals.

ron · #20 17-01-07, 23:06

Morning Graeme.
Do you have any other pics of this one and is it for sale? and how complete is the hull?
Regards,
Ron,

ron · #21 17-01-07, 23:11

Graeme,
I used to live not far from you years ago at Deer Park, where I had a S A Carrier number, 2300,
Regards,
Ron,

gjamo · #22 18-01-07, 07:02

Yes I have more pics.
No its not for sale , I would like to buy it myself but no luck.

Poppy's Carrier · #23 18-01-07, 08:10

Gday gjamo

What a find, a great looking hull for resto and a sar carrier as well . They seem to be popping up everywhere i only hope that some one is going to restore this beauty and not let it rot like a lot of so called enthusiasts tend to do.

Anyway i am currently in the process of aquiring another carrier hull that has been severely chopped i.e. upper armour removed but it has a rear diff and road wheel assemblies and also some steering gear so it should be a good donor for my carrier and just for salesman BOB the hull number is VR 3860

Cheers for now
Matt Baker

ron · #24 18-01-07, 13:55

Hi Graeme,
Thanks for posting the pic, pity its not for sale it would have made a nice project, any way thanks,
Regards,
Ron

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #25 21-01-07, 09:17

Hi Ron - I thought you were only involved with #595 &#646, where did #2300 come from?

Bob

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #26 21-01-07, 09:19

Hi Graeme & Matt - details of above locked in.
Bob

ron · #27 21-01-07, 13:26

Hello Bob,
The S Aust carrier was one that I owned a few years back number 2300. you can see it in a post that I put inthe carrier forum in Jan 2006, I tried to reinsert the pic but I was not able to do so, I dont know much about Computers,
Best Regards
Ron,