New Carrier Accessory

Brad Mills · #1 11-05-07, 00:37

Well,

Just to show off my latest find for my carrier... a Boys mk II AT rifle....Is there any end to this?

I blame this all on Rob Love (at least thats what I tell my wife).

Will get some photos up shortly of it in the Carrier.

I have the barrel support bracket and the muzzel bracket but
I am missing the rear stowage bracket for the butt...does anyone have a photo of this bracket?

Brad Mills · #2 11-05-07, 02:27

Photos with the Boys mounted...

This opens up a whole new batch of questions...

rob love · #3 11-05-07, 03:17

Of course it is my fault. Brad, I had to pass word to you that it was available, otherwise, with my packratting ways I was going to buy it, and I didn't need two.

For stowing it out the front port, lay it on the bracket which is to the left. It fits rather perfectly on there.

Remember that the carrier was a means of transporting the bren gun (and the one Boys rifle per platoon) into battle, and wasn't meant to be racing at the Tiger tank with the Boys rifle a-blazing. Therefore, if the state of readiness was such that the rifle was mounted up front, it was either being aimed by the crewcommander, or else in it's stowed bracket.

At least that is my theory.

Bruce Parker (RIP) · #4 11-05-07, 04:41

A dialogue between carrier owners discussing the finer points of mounting their Boys in their carriers is, well, just a little distressing to those of us who, through bad luck and other equally valid reasons, haven't quite managed to find our personal Boys. Yet.

Brad, I'm stlll on for trading your Mk.II Boys (which won't fit the stowage in your Carrier anyway) for the Boys brackets I have. I might consider throwing in a little cash too...

Just to make me feel better (Gawd knows I need it), tonight I tried to mount the 50 cal M2 HMG (that Rob knows a little about) in my Fox. Dam thing won't slide in without some adjustment.
To quote our all-era Texas carrier friend, "yaoo too su-uck..."

rob love · #5 11-05-07, 05:19

"I don't have a Boys and my 50 cal doesn't fit my Fox armoured car." Hard to feel too sorry for you.

Bruce. If the 50 isn't any good for you, I'll certainly buy it back.

Funny thing about the Boys rifle that Brad bought. The guy selling it was sharing tables with Derk D and myself. So all three of us owned a Boys rifle. That represented 10% of the registered owners in Canada, as there are only 30 in the registry.

Brad Mills · #6 11-05-07, 05:21

Quote:

Of course it is my fault. Brad, I had to pass word to you that it was available, otherwise, with my packratting ways I was going to buy it, and I didn't need two.

Geeze Rob,

Don't say it that way, you will make me feel guilty about the Bofors.

Quote:

A dialogue between carrier owners discussing the finer points of mounting their Boys in their carriers is, well, just a little distressing to those of us who, through bad luck and other equally valid reasons, haven't quite managed to find our personal Boys. Yet.

And this from the guy with his own personal Fox. God I feel bad.

Bruce, I'm still pondering your offer, as temptings as it is, I need more time.

rob love · #7 11-05-07, 14:34

Brad: No hard feelings on the Bofors (you bastard) .

" I don't get nuthin" as my daughter used to say when she couldn't get that $1 sucker at the checkout counter of the supermarket. She would try her little fit, standing there in her designer Oshkosh jeans and shoes, and all the other people around would be rolling their eyes, as if they had heard this line too.

Have you taken the Boys out yet to shoot it? That is when you will be truly in awe.

chris vickery · #8 11-05-07, 16:02

Quote:

Originally posted by rob love

Have you taken the Boys out yet to shoot it? That is when you will be truly in awe. [/B]

Shouldn`t that be in owwwwwwwww@*&!......?

rob love · #9 11-05-07, 17:25

No ooow involved, The adrenaline just from carrying it up to the firing line is enough to negate any current pain.

I fired 5 shots on a Saturday (I was laying on a hill) and ended up bruising my back/shoulder cause the butt wasn't even accross my shoulder.
Next day I fired 10 more rounds, wearing tropical shorts, rolled up sleeves, and laying on scrub grass. Afterwards my knees and elbows were scraped/bleeding slightly. Never felt a thing.

At todays prices that would represent a expenditure of over $400 worth of ammo. That is why my new one is in 50 cal....just $6 to $8 a shot here in Canada.

chris vickery · #10 11-05-07, 19:24

Rob, I have always had a fascination with the Boyes AT gun.

You say your current one is in 50cal. I thought this was a neat way to re-chamber this rifle into a more economic one to shoot, especially with 55 boyes ammo being as scarce and dear as it is.

Is this just a case of a gunsmith reworking a 50bmg bbl and then adding the accessories from you old bbl or is it an entirely new mfg unit?

I know you stated that there are only around 30 registered in Canada, but, what would a guy be looking at spending on one such as yours in 50cal?

rob love · #11 11-05-07, 21:27

I had my first one converted to 50 cal using a BMG M-2 barrel. It was done by Prairie gun works in Wpg, who are now busy building Canadas new sniper rifles.
Cost back then was $500, and they mentioned they would not do another for that price. I didn't even dare ask them this time cause they are swamped with the work on the govt contract.
This Boys came with a demilled barrel on it, and a Kreiger barrel blank in 50 BMG. I took it to a gunsmith in Alberta who charged me $700 to machine it and testfire it. Only thing that I don't like on it now is that the barrel is not tapered like the origional. I am planing on getting this done at some point.

That 30 number includes those that are in either 50 or in 55 cals.

Price for the rifle itself can run anywhere from $3500 to $7000 here in Canada. The US will run similar prices, (I have even seen some now listed at 10K) but they have stopped any exports of these to non-police or military, so that avenue is closed as well.

My advise to any Cdn looking for one of these: When you see one for sale, don't ask too many questions. The only words out of your mouth should be "I'll take it".

chris vickery · #12 11-05-07, 21:49

Rob, what knowledge do you have on the ex Soviet anti tank rifles that have been cropping up lately? I believe they are a PSTD or something like that in around 14.5mm. Prices on these seem more reasonable for someone looking for a big AT rifle, I wonder if one could be converted to 50bmg?

Gunner · #13 11-05-07, 21:57

Perhaps you guys haven't heard of Boyestown, New Brunswick... lotsa byes runnin' around there...

Might be opening up a worm can of Newfoundland priest jokes

A buddy of mine just stopped by... he is an amateur Walt Disney historian as well as a military history buff... he just acquired copies of Walt Disney's animated Boys training films made for the Canadian Army in '42. he will bring them in on Monday and I'll get the exact titles.... he says they can be bought on the internet.

Cheers! Mike

Tony Smith · #14 12-05-07, 14:38

Quote:

Originally posted by rob love
Brad: Have you taken the Boys out yet to shoot it? That is when you will be truly in awe.

Awe = Orthopedic Ward!

Quote:

I fired 5 shots on a Saturday. Next day I fired 10 more rounds.
At todays prices that would represent a expenditure of over $400 worth of ammo.

There is a lively backyard business going on here in Aust manufacturing .55 Boyes ammo from re-sized .50BMG cases and projs made from 1/2 copper water pipe and swaging dies made by Corbin. Despite requiring BUCKETLOADS of propellant, loaded rounds work out at less than $3 using ex-mil .50BMG cases.

If shooting .50BMG is your thing, .30 (ie 30-06) or 7.62mm (.308) brass makes nice cheap projs for next to nothing!

L to R: .55 Boys, .50BMG, .50 BMG with 675gn JSP by Corbin.

Tony Smith · #15 12-05-07, 14:55

When the case is fully annealed (ie not just the neck) and filled with recycled tyre balancing weights, .308 cases make a nice 675gn (approx) soft point, while 30-06 cases result in a 740gn sp. For those who don't have access to cheap ex-mil .50BMG loaded ammo, this is a cheap way to reload.

Brad Mills · #16 13-05-07, 14:59

Rob,

In order to use the butt rest to stow the Boys in the gunners position, the bi-pod must be removed. Would the mk I mono pod have to be removed as well to stow like this? When the gun is brought into action and when fired from inside the carrier it must really get banged around without it being properly bolted down! Or would the rubber stowage strap up front be enough to hold the barrel down?

Here are some photos showing it mounted...

Above...You can see the mounting lug for the bi-pod or mono-pod and how off center it is when the rifle is stowed in this position.

rob love · #17 14-05-07, 00:55

Brad
The Brits left nothing out of whack when they engineer things. Since the Boys is not sitting level on the flat bracket, try it with the bipod folded into the window. It should sit more level. Unless the Bipod doesn't sit through the little window, I can't see any difference between placing the mk1 or the mk2 boys in this hole. I would suspect the straps would hold it in place.
The rifle just sits too nicely (with the usual british spare tolerance of .00001 inch) in there for it to be for anything else. Plus, with that mag pouch (once I expresspost it to you this week) mounted right there, ready to hold two Boys mags, it just has to be.

Gunner Mike: The Cdn Army/ Disney films on the Boys rifle are hosted on U-tube. There are three of them. I posted a link to them about 6 months back, or you can look in U-tube with search terms like anti-tank rifle.

Chris
I owned both the PTRD 14.5 and the PTRS 14.5 semi auto. Ammo is as hard to find as an honest politician. A friend out of saskatchewan has been reloading the stuff, but with the export restrictions out of the US, it is impossible to get anything, including primers, cases and bullets, if it is 50 cal or over.
Besides, if you ever get to look close at a PTRD or a PTRS, you will find there is no comparison to a Boys. As to firing them with 50 cal, there are plenty of 50 cal rifles, even here in Canada, that the savings of trying to convert one of these really isn't worth it. Wolverine supplies was going to try and convert a bunch of the ptrds a couple years ago, but with the pressed in barrels, it was not going to be too simple.

Tony
Interesting methods on the 50 cals reloading. Even the once common 50 cal ammo here in Caanda is starting to get pretty dear...as I mentioned earlier the USofA won't let us import any of the components, and our own government would rather burn the stuff than sell it to civilians. We keep hoping for some South African surplus to eventually show up, but with all the UN anti-gun crap that keeps getting implemented, it is getting less and less likely we will ever see them.

Ledsel · #18 22-08-07, 04:01

Just a note. I don;t know who's carrier is in this thread but just thought I'd mention that the peep hole inner covers for the gunner are on backwards. Sorry. Don't mean to be picky. Very nice unit though.

Tony Smith · #19 22-08-07, 10:27

Quote:

Originally posted by BMills
Rob,

In order to use the butt rest to stow the Boys in the gunners position, the bi-pod must be removed. Would the mk I mono pod have to be removed as well to stow like this? When the gun is brought into action and when fired from inside the carrier it must really get banged around without it being properly bolted down! Or would the rubber stowage strap up front be enough to hold the barrel down?

Here are some photos showing it mounted...

Above...You can see the mounting lug for the bi-pod or mono-pod and how off center it is when the rifle is stowed in this position.

The parts listing for the Aust Carriers shows an adapter (Item 1227/7) that clamps to the feet of the bipod and mounts into the MG pintle mount, or a steel clamp to allow it to be fitted in other locations around the hull (Item 1227).

Pedr · #20 23-08-07, 14:54

Firstly, Apologies to Brad for Hijacking this thread.

I have had regular disagreement with Ray Carn, whom insists that he has seen photographic evidence of Boys mounted in Australian built carriers.

I agree that they can be mounted in the ancillary role in Australian carriers but don't believe that they were ever mounted in the gunners port, as Australian carriers do not have the provision for this to take place.

Unlike the British / Canadian design, Australian carriers have a purpose fitted gun mount in the gunners port. Thusly, there are specialised mounts for Vickers and Bren to be mounted in that port.

Provisions are made to mount ancillary weapons in the rear compartment in the roles of AA and AT, However, these weapons being Lewis, Hotchkiss, Bren and Boys, there was no allowances made to fit these weapons in the fighting compartment of the carrier.

Does anyone have anything to add or contradict this??

Photos courtesy of The Australian War Memorial

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