Sensible laws for teachers in Toronto..

Shayne · #1 07-02-08, 20:08

Arming teachers is PROACTIVE!? You actually believe this!? I don't even know how to respond to that. I don't know how anyone can consider guns around 5 year olds (or even 12 year-olds!) proactive or responsible. I don't know how you, as a police officer, believe all teachers are stable and responsible.
I do know you make a lot of assumptions in a short response.
One is that you have managed to label me based on one response to one post.
I do believe guns have their place. I just don't believe it is hidden under the sport jacket or in the purse of an educator inside a public school. Especially not one my child is attending!!

sapper740 · #2 07-02-08, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne

Arming teachers is PROACTIVE!? You actually believe this!? I don't even know how to respond to that. I don't know how anyone can consider guns around 5 year olds (or even 12 year-olds!) proactive or responsible. I don't know how you, as a police officer, believe all teachers are stable and responsible.
I do know you make a lot of assumptions in a short response.
One is that you have managed to label me based on one response to one post.
I do believe guns have their place. I just don't believe it is hidden under the sport jacket or in the purse of an educator inside a public school. Especially not one my child is attending!!

Shayne, this isn't the proper forum for us to engage in a debate on gun control. There is a very good forum www.canadiangunutz.com where I can often be found and would be more than pleased to discuss these issues with you.

Shayne · #3 07-02-08, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by sapper740

Shayne, this isn't the proper forum for us to engage in a debate on gun control. There is a very good forum www.canadiangunutz.com where I can often be found and would be more than pleased to discuss these issues with you.

I have no interest in discussing gun control any more than I do about discussing religion or politics. The thread is about arming teachers!!!

chris vickery · #4 08-02-08, 03:10

If they outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns... Truer words have never been spoken.
I for one, believe that in Canada, an apparently "free" nation, that I should have the right to carry a firearm. Our left wing government sees otherwise.

I know far too many law enforcement officers that could barely hit a barndoor with a bucket of s**t, let alone with a pistol bullet. These are the same guys who are supposed to protect us, yet show up after the carnage to mop up the scene... Not their fault afterall, every time they pull their gun a pile of paperwork results. As long as they qualify once per year on the range they get a bye and its off for another year. On the same token, I know many responsible target shooters who ply their hobby on a weekly basis. ask me who'd I'd rather have my back and its real easy.

Considering the fact that this firm is offering to train teachers in excess of what law enforcement personnel receive, I say bravo. Its about time someone steps to the plate by being "proactive". Unfortunately today our society has to stoop to such measures. If you recall the last US massacre, there were "no guns allowed on campus". How many dead was that again???

I know one thing for sure. In light of the most recent car jackings in Toronto, those punks may have thought twice about their victims if the idea of armed resistance was possible. Same goes for many US States where law abiding citizens can carry a weapon. The stats are out there; in states where concealed weapon carry is legal the trend leans in favour of the victim...I for one would be happy to know that someone has the security of my kids in mind.

Snowtractor · #5 14-02-08, 17:04

I was emailed this by a Canadian friend of mine. I do not know if the numbers are accurate or not. If they are, very interesting indeed.
I do know that if they are true, my anti-gun friends would still refuse to acknowledge them. It is more of a faith than fact affair for them.
I would be interested to tie in the death by cigarettes and automobiles too. That would far out weigh the gun deaths.
Sean

FACTS TO PONDER:

The number of physicians in the U.S.is 700,000.

(B) Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year are 120,000.

(C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171

Statistics courtesy of U.S.Dept. of Health Human Services.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now think about this:

GUNS:

(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S.is

80,000,000 (Yes, that's 80 million)

(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per

year, all age groups, is 1,500.

(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is: .000188

Statistics courtesy of F.B.I.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So, statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times

more dangerous than gun owners.

sapper740 · #6 14-02-08, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowtractor

I was emailed this by a Canadian friend of mine. I do not know if the numbers are accurate or not. If they are, very interesting indeed.
I do know that if they are true, my anti-gun friends would still refuse to acknowledge them. It is more of a faith than fact affair for them.
I would be interested to tie in the death by cigarettes and automobiles too. That would far out weigh the gun deaths.
Sean

FACTS TO PONDER:

The number of physicians in the U.S.is 700,000.

(B) Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year are 120,000.

(C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171

Statistics courtesy of U.S.Dept. of Health Human Services.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now think about this:

GUNS:

(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S.is

80,000,000 (Yes, that's 80 million)

(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per

year, all age groups, is 1,500.

(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is: .000188

Statistics courtesy of F.B.I.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So, statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times

more dangerous than gun owners.

I promised I wouldn't post any further comments regarding gun control to MLU but one more can't possibly hurt, right?
Interesting statistics which make you think, don't they? Unfortunately Anti-gunners don't think, they have a mental block which filters out info based upon common-sense and the facts and only allows those based upon emotion. I know whereof I speak. I was very active politically when I lived in B.C. I was one of the first Reform party members and worked hard to get Randy White elected. I was also active first in the N.F.A. and then the R.F.O.C. I attended many meetings and rallies and I picketed the Liberal M.P.s office in Vancouver East. I helped prepare our representative in his many debates with the likes of Kim Campbell, Allan Rock, and Wendy Cukier (pronounced kookier, I believe.) Three absolute nutbars in my opinion. Here are three quotes from this illustrious crowd:

Kim Campbell:

"We don't need guns in Canadian society, we have the police to protect us."

Alan Rock:

"I speak for all Canadians when I say we want tougher gun laws."

And my personal favourite:

Wendy Kookier:

"If it will save even one human life, how can any reasonable person be against gun control."

Wendy neglected to say that if it will save even one human life how can any reasonable person also be against banning swing sets. slides, swimming pools, cars, trucks, trains, airplanes, space shuttles, alcohol, Pit Bulls, golf, logging, cell phones, red meat, Doberman Pinschers, unprotected sex, physical exertion, ...well, you get the idea.

The worst part is, they weren't even embarrassed to utter such drivel, to the contrary, they firmly believed it and no amount of common sense could penetrate their thick Liberal skulls. If they ever go into combat, they won't need helmets! So I apologize Shayne if your comments got my back up, it's not you I'm angry with. I just simply thank God that I now live where common sense regarding firearms is apparently coming to the fore, and if you believe the statistics, it's working. The murder rate in the U.S. has been in steady decline for some years now, and during this period what has happened with gun control laws? Why, they have become less stringent. The Assault Rifle ban expired, more states than ever are allowing Concealed Carry permits, Texas has expanded the "Your home is your castle" doctrine to "Anywhere you have the legal right to be", pilots can carry handguns, and Arizona is considering allowing teachers to carry firearms to defend themselves and their students.
Consider Canada. With some of the toughest gun control laws in the world, including registration of all firearms, where is Canada's murder rate going? Up....up...up!
So where's the difference? Easy! Canada's broad spectrum gun control laws target everyone, including law abiding citizens and gun collectors. So if only the law abiding citizens obey the gun laws, then doesn't that create an imbalance of power and thereby make more Canadians attractive targets? Of course it does! In the U.S., law makers (mostly state) realize the imbalance that broad spectrum gun laws create and are rectifying that by crafting laws to level the playing field in their areas. The facts speak for themselves. Washington D.C. has a total and complete handgun ban. Check out the crime stats for that area, they're through the roof. States where handguns are allowed, especially Concealed Carry, the statistics are much lower. 'Nuff said!

Jefe, my apologies for using MLU as a soap box against the Antis, I'll endeavour to persevere in restraining such outbursts in the future. As I said in my previous post look up www.canadiangunutz.com It's a great forum.

Shayne · #7 14-02-08, 21:29

I am neither pro-gun nor anti-gun.
If someone wants a gun then by all means there should be a system in place to allow gun ownership. Strict, cost effective, and fair to the gun owner and general public. But those gun owners should be held accountable if their weapons are stolen, lost, misused, or misplaced.
These ridiculous comparisons and accusations about being closed minded or not thinking when referring to the anti-gun lobby or using odd statistics like doctor related deaths to support the gun position are really, really grasping. They actually do the exact opposite they are intended to do. How do you expect to get respect when using drivel like that? Especially when in the same argument I see mention of how blind the antigun lobby is!!!
When was the last time a thief stole a doctor and used him/her to rob a convenience store, or terrorize a home owner, or murder his family?
It is inherent in any person, including those who's life calling is to save life, to be human and make mistakes... how many lives would be lost if no one ever made the attempt to medically assist those who needed it? How many lives would be lost if no one had a gun?
Doctors and medical staff are held accountable by the medical community when something goes wrong yet, inversely, the gun lobby has the exact opposite position; when someone is hurt or killed all you hear from the pro-gun gallery are excuses and rational and not constructive ways to remedy or solve what happened. Be proactive rather than reactive and come up with better arguments than that or there will always be an anti-gun lobby. Why are people anti-gun? Let's address that rather than using doctors as a reason accidental gun deaths are OK. The accidental or intentional death of a single, solitary child is reason enough to find answers. No excuses. No rhetoric. Be proactive.
There is a much, much bigger and broader picture here and both extremes need to find a common ground. Guns are a reality of modern society, you cannot erradicate them but legitimate gun owners can never have to much responsibilty when it comes to owning one.
Arming teachers is NOT responsible!!!!!

Rich Payne · #8 07-02-08, 21:45

I've been sitting here quietly trying to picture my teachers in 1970s England attempting to cope with a firearm and quite frankly it's scary. Probably the least mentally stable group of people I've ever come across !

Most of them couldn't even aim a cuff round the ear and make sure it connected and the idea of them launching anything more dangerous than a board rubber down the classroom doesn't bear thinking about.

I guarantee that most of us were capable of being cheeky enough to make a couple of them at least start shooting