Sherman ARV at Camp Borden??

[Ed Storey]

I just shake my head, sad.... Nice looking birds nest though.

[chris vickery]

Rob, I read elsewhere that the paint code given the paint shop was the one for veh interiors and not the correct one for a WW2 tank exterior. Once again, a prime example of how history in the hands of some Museums, who are held to a higher standard, treat history.

[Bob Phillips]

So that leaves one question.. where did the GAA powerplant end up?
Oshawa, Ottawa ..anybody know?...B.P.

[Robin Craig]

So, I had a nice fireside chat with one of my "sources" shall we say.

Turns out the base construction folks thought there was a wrecker going on the pad out front of the museum, just nobody told them it was an ARV hence thier reply to my enquiry earlier.

The ARV has been sent out for a repaint and will be back to go onto the pad sometime before about the 11th of May so I am told.

The new colour will be much better, the painter did what he was told so dont shoot him. The markings that it comes back with will be wrong but they will be changed as soon as it is back to a better marking, there is some legal play at hand that has to be satisfied, so relax a bit.

I will try to get some images of the install but spring has spring and I have many days of field work to accomplish and swanning around toown wont happen much for a while.

More as I know it

[Russ Gregg]

I now live about 10 minutes from Borden and passed through today on my way to Barrie. I hadn't been to the museum in a few years and always thought that it was a shame they didn't have some sort of guide book to all the vehicles and aircraft on display around the base. They do now have a large map outside the museum with coordinates and model of all items on static display, probably in preparation for the 100th anniversary celebrations, but the gentleman inside told me there were no paper copies available. Next time I go I will take a decent camera and get a good picture of it, although it wouldn't have helped with Bob's request. If anyone wants some investigation or pictures of something there PM me.

[Ed Storey]

Does this mean the vehicle is going to be painted the appropriate Bundeswehr green with markings?

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

Does this mean the vehicle is going to be painted the appropriate Bundeswehr green with markings?

Hmmm? Do you have a sense when these ARVs were surplussed? The typical platform for a Madill Spar Yarder logging tower is an M32. I was wondering where these would have come from in large enough numbers to be a predictable source of supply.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

The typical platform for a Madill Spar Yarder logging tower is an M32. I was wondering where these would have come from in large enough numbers to be a predictable source of supply.

Why M32? Aren't they based on any-type of lower Sherman tank?

H.

[maple_leaf_eh]

I have few exact construction details. The literature for a Madill 171 lists the base vehicle as an M4A3, another clearly indicates M32 for a Madill 071. Another user, Finning which made pneumatic rock drills uses the base vehicle in the model designator, ie. Finning M32F Hammer Drill.

[Peter Duggan]

Robin,

I took some pieces to a sandblaster, just outside of Deseronto, and came across your ARV. Looks as if it should be off to Kingston shortly.

Peter

[rob love]

Much better colour.

Is it me or is the call-sign stenciling a little too modern and out of place?

[Frank v R]

well at least they did not have it go with WW2 markings for Holland , and as far as I know we never used the M-74, they were constructed between 1950-55, it does look much better,

[Robin Craig]

As I stated before, the markings will be changed once it gets on the pad, the painter is obligated by contract to do those markings.

[Ed Storey]

Always nice to see a museum display a vehicle with fictitious markings and in this case on a vehicle that Canada never even used. Also good to see the attitude that old vehicles are only fit to sit outside as bird's nests to slowly rust away continues to live on in Canada.

[Clint Tauber]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

I have few exact construction details. The literature for a Madill 171 lists the base vehicle as an M4A3, another clearly indicates M32 for a Madill 071. Another user, Finning which made pneumatic rock drills uses the base vehicle in the model designator, ie. Finning M32F Hammer Drill.

Primary reason for the M-32 carrier designation was to avoid confusion with the first tank drills, which used M-4 high speed tractors. The larger Madill and Tyee yarders used a carrier designated the "M4A3", which was a Dr. Frankenstein thing closer to an M40 SP gun. Widened and lengthened hull, and carrying 60 tons of machine. Several of the so-called "M-32" drills were likely built from Grizzlies and Sextons, had the CDP track. Horrible stuff, most got replaced within a year or two with US pattern track. The last tank drills were "M-40F's" and are not an M-40 at all, they are a typical HVSS Sherman with standard length hull.

Lots of the earliest steel spar yarders were mounted on M-6 HS tractors, converted to varying degrees. Some still retained the original cab. The first tank drill was simply an M4 HS tractor with a compressor on the back and a drill attached to the front. Still had the Waukesha gas engine, even. Later versions were highly modified, with air control for steering, diesel power, etc. Also 10 speed transmissions added.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Thank you for the specifics. Learn something new every day.

[Clint Tauber]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

Thank you for the specifics. Learn something new every day.

Here are some drills, WW2 equipment still earning its keep. The Tank Drill was first built by G.M. Philpott, later bought by Finning. Several companies built copies. Chapman built a "Drilmobile" based on the M5 HS tractor, Traxxon made one out of all kinds of components.

[jdmcm]

The two vehicles pictured on the left sport M4 High Speed tractor running gear, not M4 Sherman

[Clint Tauber]

Originally Posted by jdmcm

The two vehicles pictured on the left sport M4 High Speed tractor running gear, not M4 Sherman

Actually M4A1 with extended end connectors on both sides. That is my point, Finning already had an M4, so when they upgraded to Sherman running gear, they couldn't call it an M4, so it became an "M-32"

[Robin Craig]

JDMCM I am having trouble getting emails to you.

I need to speak or email urgently on an issue that is of advantage to you

[maple_leaf_eh]

And just to stir the naming convention pot, att is a photo of a yellow Finning tank drill's HVSS suspension which I labelled as M32F from the source.

[jdmcm]

Hi Robin

Will email you tonight

John

[Clint Tauber]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

And just to stir the naming convention pot, att is a photo of a yellow Finning tank drill's HVSS suspension which I labelled as M32F from the source.

The HVSS drill was similar to the M32F, Finning called it the "M40F". A few M32's were rebuilt with HVSS and would look pretty much like the M40F. The use of surplus equipment on the West Coast could fill a book. There were half tracks with yarders on them, M26 tank retrievers as spar carriers, M4 tractors used as drill carriers and fire fighters, etc. The so called "M4A3" carrier was sold by Napco to a few yarder manufacturers as the "Napco Spar Carrier". I think I have the manual for one here, somewhere.

[Ryan Harriman]

Here it is now.

[rob love]

Despite the objections, it is still a better fate than some. Even as we speak, portions of Bill Gregg's collection have been moved out to the Shilo golfcourse to spend 5 days acting as window dressing between holes and thunderstorms. (Sorry Stu, I tried to fight it and took days off in the end so I didn't have to be part of it).

Worse things yet can happen...... in other locations gate guardians have ended up out in the ranges as hard targets or sold off as scrap.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Clint Tauber

The HVSS drill was similar to the M32F, Finning called it the "M40F". A few M32's were rebuilt with HVSS and would look pretty much like the M40F. The use of surplus equipment on the West Coast could fill a book. There were half tracks with yarders on them, M26 tank retrievers as spar carriers, M4 tractors used as drill carriers and fire fighters, etc. The so called "M4A3" carrier was sold by Napco to a few yarder manufacturers as the "Napco Spar Carrier". I think I have the manual for one here, somewhere.

Clint,

If you have more info about the use of surplus equipment I'd be happy to start a new thread as I think this is a very interesting but neglected subject.

Thanks,
Hanno

[302Trooper]

This Sherman ARV was found on a range in Germany and recovered by A Sqn Mech's. When the RCD returned to Petawawa and I was posted to Lahr with the VIII CH it was part of the 3 vehicle display in front of N-40 and N-50. When Princess Anne visited the regiment in the spring of 1989 all of the vehicles were opened sandblasted and re-painted. When we closed out Lahr and the North Marg the Hussars gave the ARV back to the EME to be returned to Canada.

[Ed Storey]

I love museums that use faux artifacts with fake markings. A sad practice that is condoned by many and a practice continues to be perpetrated and perpetuated by the woefully uninformed.

[Robin Craig]

Just to clarify a few things here.

I spent some time this past weekend with a number of the staff from the C+ E Museum, including 3 senior staff members.

The ARV is a base monument and not the Museum's, be very very clear on this.

Just because it is outside the museum does not make it theirs.

There has been a change of Directors and it seems there is new life and direction ahead.

Pleasant and agreeable folks I am happy to have met and been informed by.

[Robert Bergeron]

Friends,

I just spent last week in Borden. See my posts in the Sergeants Mess.

I consider myself lucky there was a museum to be visited, monuments and gate guards to be seen.

I was a bit shocked to learn that the Firefly Sherman posing as Major Radley-Walter's was not in fact .

But then , it is a nice reminder of his great contribution.

i like original and correctly represented and i like reminders, tributes. But it should be clearly labeled . Truthfullness is better .