Camp Borden Monuments

[Bob Phillips]

I notice that the gate monuments ( a helicopter, large propeller and CDN sherman ( Grizzly?) have been removed at Angus. Does anyone know the why or where ?? ...B.P.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Base Public Affairs Officer
c/o Commanding Officer
CFB Borden,
Angus, ON
L0M 1C0

(lots of men, one CO)

[Robin Craig]

likely a repaint program. Most bases have that periodically.

R

[chris vickery]

I was majorly disappointed when the Bomarc disappeared from the North Bay waterfront.
Apparently it was not PC to showcase a Nuclear missle in North Bay even though it was and is a signifigant piece of local history.
Like it or not, the area and the Underground Complex was a major part of Norad and the missile batteries during the Cold War a deterrent against Communist aggression...
I heard all the arguements from, its still hot to its property of the US Government.. BS is what it is.
If they wanted to relocate the monument they could have put it on my front lawn, no questions asked...

[rob love]

A quick google search makes it look like North Bay had border raiders hit that one. Photos of the Bomarc on display show it as being number 446.Another photo shows a Bomarc with that number on display at the Cdn Aviation and Aerospace museum in Ottawa.

Funny thing is that the photo of 446 sitting in a hanger is reported on one website that 446, when retired in 1972, went to the Calgary Aviation museum. However, on checking photos of the one in Edmonton (only 2 have survived in Canada) it is numbered 447.

[Colin Alford]

Bob,

The Kiowa and Grizzly are hiding in a compound near MSA stores (the anchor may be there as well but not visible from the road). When they removed the monuments they also removed a retaining wall and the CFB Borden sign across the road. I have heard rumour that they are going to rework that intersection in an attempt to improve traffic flow to a large new subdivision at the south-east corner of Angus. I suspect that the two are related.

Colin

[Bill Alexander]

IIUC, the Bomarc in North Bay had to be removed because of environmental issues. The story was that the alloy used in the outside skin was unstable and required remediation to prevent disintegration. To complicate the issue, the missile was apparently, in some way still the responsibility of the USAF. With the issue of costly maintenance and the question of the materials in the skin, it was reappropriated by the USAF. One rumour has it that the USAF actually requested the return.
Chris alludes to the anti-nuc issue, which was a factor. The Bomarc and an adjacent CF 100 were targets of some vandalism. Cleaning the paint off the missile led to the discovery of the deterioration and the eventual bureaucratic reaction.

[chris vickery]

The appearance of 446 in the War Museum would imply that the rumour is unfounded then if the USAF wanted it back. Of course this would need to be confirmed that 446 in the CWM is in fact 446 and not a mock up of same...

[rob love]

Artifacts like these remain the property of DND/DHH. If the Bomarc was deteriorating, and the town did not want to absorb the cost of maintenance, it may have been put up for re-distribution. Better that than the city sending it off for scrap or re-sale, which has happened in the past.

Looking at the 3 photos, it would appear that the two in CAF markings are in the same hanger, so possibly the website that I was reading was in error. Who would think that you could read it on the internet and it would not be true? Also interesting is that at North Bay it was in RCAF markings, but ended up in CAF markings at the museum, along with it's red nose which indicates a training round.

As an ITAR item, the US does still control the final disposition of their produced equipment, so the rumour may have had a little substance to it in that it should not have merely been disposed of as unregulated scrap.

What year did it leave North Bay?

[Bill Alexander]

Found the gen on the removal. Here is a link to the story. http://www.nugget.ca/2009/09/12/cold...ic-on-the-move

[rob love]

Amazing the information that can be gleaned from this internet fad in so short a period of time.

[chris vickery]

Sorry Bob, we now return to your original Post.
What about those CFB Borden monuments?

[Bob Phillips]

The explanation about reworking the intersection certainly seems reasonable.
I should point out that the grizzly appears to be a complete vehicle ( meaning it does have its R975 engine) and should be almost too good for a gatepost item. However there are a number of vehicles around the base ( Russian and etc) that are complete and potential runners if there was an interest and some funds to do so....BP