"OH BUGGER!" (or Embarrassing Situations)

[pand65au]

the black triangles are "tactical (tac) signs" which denote unit and radio callsigns. the upside down one is the symbol for 2nd cav regt. any numbers denote squadron, troop, then vehicle, eg 98 b is tech support sqn call sign bravo.
if you have a triangle the right way up it belongs to 2/3 field engineer regt.
i'll tray to see if i can find some old photos to see if it is the old 2 cav elec repair car. did it have a series 3 alternator and a series 3 rear axle ??? it was about 1990 when i last saw her.

[Dinty]

G'day Pand65au, yes it did have a Series 3 alternator fitted, but it still had the std Rover rear diff, I have fitted it with a Salisbury rear axle assembly. While using the orbital sander today I came across some other markings, the number 83 (4" high) the inverted triangle, the smaller triangle inside has a stencil of an open ended spanner horizontally across the top, and the letter A (also 4"high) no other markings have been found. The rhs front wing just above the convoy light was stencilled 32 this number from memory was approx 6" tall and of course Neg Earth just behind it. The only other markings were on both outer wings stencilled in block letters 4" high "TASSIE DEVIL".
Would you know what type of unit/formation signs this vehicle would have carried/displayed any help gratefully accepted, the only experience I have had with the military was National service along time ago thanks for help anyway cheers Dennis

[pand65au]

yes thats the old girl the markings are right. my memory is not as good as it used to be. 98 was the call signs for 5/7 mech tech support coy, 8 was for 2 cav tech supp sqn. so the numbers are; 8 for tech suport sqn, 3 was for elec / tels section, A for 2nd veh ( the other veh was a mk 5 tells wagon and its call sign was 83. the spanner was somthing we put on all tech sqn vehicles to help tell everone that we are workshops. the tac signs on the front were on the l/h side a 1st brigade symbol (tring to find one) and on the right is the "unit number" 2 cav was 32 on top of a 1/2 -9/16 open ended spanner from memory, for tactical or low visiable situations they were painted in black on the vehicle sign holder or on the back of the tac sign and on the other side they were in colour with 32 painted in white over a background of the raeme colours of blue, yellow and red bars like richard farrant's avitar. the 1st brigade sign was a 1 on top of a kangaroo and crossed sords ill see if i can find a clear photo

[pand65au]

heres the 1st brigade sign. its yellow(gold?) on a bronze green background. low visable its just black on olive drab. the name tassy devil is all tech supp vehicles had to have a name that started with a "T" and the driver was a tasmanian!

[phoenix]

I thought i'd post this one of my own personal "oops!"

[Dinty]

G'day Richard, just a quick one if you drove your Series 2 Ambulance any distance it would have done the self same thing except only on the rear axle wouldn't that have been fun just as well it's in for a full restoration cheers mate Dennis
Geeeeez did anyone watch the Auntie last nite 4 Corners, now the TV news today going on about Petrol being $6.00 a litre in 2020 we will all be floggin a :dh:

[phoenix]

Probably would have dennis, but like you said, as it's in for a full restoration It should be right.

It looks like the FFR will be getting a landy engine back in before long as well

[Max Hedges]

this fellow couldn't even turn around on a good road without getting stuck
Max

[Max Hedges]

The tour guide on the all aussie adventures could not even get around the corner on all four wheels

[Keith Webb]

Originally posted by Max Hedges
this fellow couldn't even turn around on a good road without getting stuck
Max

Gosh, that fellow looks rather like one we met this week driving a Land Cruiser!

[Lang]

I think you will find the tac sign above is 1 Division not 1 Brigade.

The parent organisation is the same sign but without any numbers - Field Force Command.

99% of vehicles carry the Divisional Tac sign plus their unit signs or if they are not 1 Div vehicles but other Field Force units they carry the unnumbered kangaroo and swords plus unit sign. The signs are so similar I am sure most soldiers would not have noticed the difference.

1 Brigade tac sign (I don't think anyone has seen one for years) is crossed swords on a red shield with a boomerang at the bottom.

Lang

[Lang]

Just another complication with Australian Tac signs. The green and yellow kangaroo and swords is Field Force Command B and the red and gold swords and kangaroo (plus crown) as seen on a Mercedes above is Field Force Command A

Lang

[pand65au]

2 cav was a "diferent unit" when i was posted there. it was a 1st div "asset" unit directly under it's comand, but it was "administed" by / under 1st brigade. i havent yet found a clear photo of any of my cars with coloured tac signs in their holders. but from memory (from 1999) yes it was green, kangaroo on swords and im sure it had a 1.

[Lang]

1 Brigade is a sub-unit of 1 Division. It seems brigade tac signs have not been carried for 20 or 30 years so everybody carries the divisional sign (or Field Force sign without a divisional number for non-div troops).

I have not taken much notice in recent years but with all the special units, task forces (brigades disappeared for 30 years and became a Task Force but have now gone back to their traditional naming. Task forces seem to be just that now - any size group formed to do a specific job) and UN detachments I think you will find quite large seemingly traditional size units are carrying the Field Force tac sign and are not on a division order of battle.

With the new age army operating under a corporatisation mentality I wonder how the thing can operate. Name changes, management structure changes, weasel-word unit and job names, political correctness and total lack of risk taking decisions are the order of the day. An infantry platoon commander has to do a semi-formal "Risk Assessment" before putting in a platoon attack. Meanwhile he has lost his front section. God give me strength!!!

I do despair. as I keep telling my grandson "When I was in the army we didn't need numbers - we all knew each other!"

Lang

[gjamo]

Military content think a tank recovery unit may be needed.

[gjamo]

Maybe helium balloons

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Lang
1 Brigade is a sub-unit of 1 Division. It seems brigade tac signs have not been carried for 20 or 30 years so everybody carries the divisional sign (or Field Force sign without a divisional number for non-div troops).

I have not taken much notice in recent years but with all the special units, task forces (brigades disappeared for 30 years and became a Task Force but have now gone back to their traditional naming. Task forces seem to be just that now - any size group formed to do a specific job) and UN detachments I think you will find quite large seemingly traditional size units are carrying the Field Force tac sign and are not on a division order of battle.

With the new age army operating under a corporatisation mentality I wonder how the thing can operate. Name changes, management structure changes, weasel-word unit and job names, political correctness and total lack of risk taking decisions are the order of the day. An infantry platoon commander has to do a semi-formal "Risk Assessment" before putting in a platoon attack. Meanwhile he has lost his front section. God give me strength!!!
Lang

Not to sidetrack this thread too much ( ), can anyone explain (or point to a website that explains) the recent/current tac signs made up of a pyramid with coloured bands?

[Pedr]

The following is "borrowed" from
"Formation Signs and Vehicle Markings of the Australian Army 1903-1983"
By Stephen Taubert
ISBN 0 646 34505 2


"1st INFANTRY BRIGADE – ARA
1949 – 1960

When withdrawn from duties with the BCOF the 34th Infantry Brigade was relocated to Puckapunyal in Victoria and renamed 1 Infantry Brigade. Formation began in 1949, and the organisations first commander was Brigadier I.A. Campbell. The organisation was moved to Paddington NSW, in November 1954 and finally disbanded in 1960, when the new Pentropic organisation was formed. Its formation sign was crossed swords, set above a boomerang both in Gold, upon a Union Jack Red shield set on a khaki rectangle. During the period this was the only regular army brigade and it commanded all regular army field organisations within Australia including the 1st and 2nd Battalions, The Royal Australian Regiment (R.A.R.) and the 1st Armoured Car Squadron based at Puckapunyal. The 3rd Battalion R.A.R. remained in Japan as Australia’s commitment to the BCOF."



Apologies to those who are aware of common practice quotation, unfortunately there is too much text to put it all in italics.

[Pedr]

"1st DIVISION – ARA
1965 - on

A kangaroo on crossed swords surmounted by the number one in gold, on a dark green background. This is the only regular army division within the army and includes some army reserve units and brigades."

[Pedr]

"FIELD FORCE COMMAND
1972 – 1987

The role of this organisation was to raise, train and maintain forces for operational deployment, and incorporated both regular and reserve units and formations. Its sign was a gold kangaroo, on crossed silver and white swords with gold handles, surmounted by the Imperial Crown in gold, white, blue and green all on a red background."

[Pedr]

"LAND COMMAND
1987

Formerly Field Force Command, it was renamed in 1987, to reflect the Army’s change from forward defence to that of continental defence. Its sign is a kangaroo on crossed swords in yellow, with black highlighting on the swords, on a dark green background."

[Pedr]

I believe that some of these markings may still be current, but I am not in a position to verify this.

I have a list of units that come under each of these banners, however, for National Security reasons I can't post them here. Sorry, we don't know who's watching this site.

The book once again

"Formation Signs and Vehicle Markings of the Australian Army 1903-1983"
By Stephen Taubert
ISBN 0 646 34505 2

Photo is David Lean's 101 Fwd Control Land Rover
Rapier Gun Tractor
Ex 110 Air Defence Battery, 16th Independent Artillery Regiment.
Photo by Ross O'Brien @ Birdwood Military Day 2003
Vehicle took "Best in show"

[Pedr]

Hey Tony

Do you mean these???

Perhaps someone more qualified than me, can answer your question.

Pedr

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Pedr
Hey Tony
Do you mean these???
Pedr

That's them!

[Larry Hayward]

Hey Phoenix,

I loved the photo of the Land Rover using a wheel as a jack!

As a Landy owner I would love to know how it came to be like that!

[Dinty]

G'day All, Larry please don't embarrass young Phoenix anymore (he is a good lad) about this as he did cop a floggin from some of the lads in the REMLR site at the time, but I have to agree it is a unique way to park your Land Rover, in more than 30 years of Land Rovering I have never seen it done like that anyway cheers Dennis

[phoenix]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
That's them!

Those christmas trees seem to appear on anything, i've got some vietnam packs that had them painted on them. Apart from signifying that it's an australian vehicle i've no idea what they mean (if anything). Maybe to do with fuels?

Larry, it was a bit of an interesting occurance as Dennis said.

It was a combination of factors. parly due to my own lack of maintenance as I had only just started doing my own work, and also due to a previous owners lack of maintenace.

At some point water had gotten into the wheel bearing on that side and rusted it out. I only ever found some small traces of the cage that holds the bearing. And obviously it let go, and bent the lock washers and the whole wheel hub came off whilst attached to the wheel. I certainly know how to maintenance bearings now!!!!

As for ending up in that position, I was moving about 2km/h and it came off and caught on the fuel tank, and I just rolled up onto it

[oztankboy]

Hi there!

Well the "xmass tree" ID's the unit. You will notice that there is a 4 didgit number at the bottom of the "tree" well each digit corrisponds to a colour bar on the "tree". I can't think which way it ran from top to bottom or bottom to top... will have to get back to you on that 1.

But when I was in 18Fld Sq Lt (RAE) as part of 3rd Task Force/ 3rd Brigade in the early 80's vertualy every piece of kit had it spray painted on it... from your "grunt" pack, foot locker, tentage, vehicles and plant etc etc... you get the idea. I even recon they would of tatooed it on us if they thought they would of got away with it

I don't know how it came about and what time frame it was used other than it was definatly used through out the 1980's.

More to follow...

Phil...

[Howard]

A link just frwarded to me from my wife from a workmate of hers who thought I might be interested. And I was. click here
Cheers!

[Dinty]

G'day All, Thats seriously bogged, I wonder who was getting their posterior roasted over that, but given the conditions that appear to be prevailing in and around the picture and possibly 2 way traffic it would be very easy to get into strife cheers Dennis