Morris-Commercial Umbau-Wagen

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Futher to the thread CMP Umbau-Wagen, here's a picture recently sold on eBay (Item #2259320882, sold by rwcmilitaria), showing (at least) three Morris-Commercial CS8's captured (at Dunkirk?) and rebuilt as Kübelwagen or personnel carrier trucks by the German Army.

The conversion seems to be different again from those found on CMP F15 trucks.

[Bill Murray]

Marvelous shot Hanno!!
Have not seen that exact body type before.
Looks like the Germans had the same problem getting wheels/tyres that you restorers still have today.
Bill

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's another shot of a Morris-Commercial Kübel (also auctioned on eBay), this time a PU 8-cwt fully converted to Kfz 15 standard.

[Mike K]

great pics Hanno

One wonders how they managed to keep them running . Where did they find replacement parts e.g., for engine rebuilds . They could not cable MCC in Birmingham !

Mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Mike Kelly
great pics Hanno

Mike, here's another one. This one must be based on a Quad, quite an elaborative conversion. Again, a type of bodywork I have not seen before. Apparently it was all worth the effort, maybe the Morris' were simply very reliable?

H.

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Futher to the thread CMP Umbau-Wagen, here's a picture recently sold on eBay (Item #2259320882, sold by rwcmilitaria), showing (at least) three Morris-Commercial CS8's captured (at Dunkirk?) and rebuilt as Kübelwagen or personnel carrier trucks by the German Army.

The conversion seems to be different again from those found on CMP F15 trucks.

Young Ballard says they're very early CS8s with the 3 piece rims, so Dunkirk capture is likely, in fact virtually assume its always the case owing to the numbers left behind.

They have a Wehrmacht windscreen though amongst other things. I have sent the image to The Baron Paulus von Hocking, he might well be able to identify the unit, date and place.

R.

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Mike, here's another one. This one must be based on a Quad, quite an elaborative conversion. Again, a type of bodywork I have not seen before. Apparently it was all worth the effort, maybe the Morris' were simply very reliable?

There seems to be circumstantial evidence that the M-Cs were well regarded by the Wehrmacht and hence the effort in making engineered bodies for them.

Again, young Ballard pronounces this as an early C8 quad with the steering flutter prone 20" wheels using 3 piece rims. They must have re-built everything here as the mudguards are of strange German pattern.

R.

[Stellan Bojerud (RIP)]

Second photo from top. Note unit marking on the mudguard.

In this case 1st Cavalry Division which on 28th Nov 1941 was ordered to reorganize as 24th Panzer Division.

This reorganization was carried out in France Feb-Mrs 1942 in Mailly le Camp and Coetquidan.

The Division was sent to Russia and later whiped out in Stalingrad. A few elements outside of the Stalingrad pocket were brought to France where the Division was reinstated.

Stellan

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another photo of a Morris-Commercial fully converted to Kfz.15 standard, with the typical triangular doors. This is a CS8 15-cwt, not a PU 8-cwt, right?


Picture linked from Morris Commercial C4

[alleramilitaria]

thans strange all the brits that i have talked to have not much good to say about the morris C8. most hoped that they would be wrecked, burst into flames, or just came up missing so they could get one of the bedfords everyone else was driving around in. when i show mine most vets shake there head and ask why the bloody hell i would have a moggie?!?!?!?!?!?

[Rolf S. Ask]

Found this picture

of a Morris Commercial PU umbauwagen on http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...highlight=ford

Enjoy

Rolf

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Rolf S. Ask
Morris Commercial PU umbauwagen

Great find, Rolf!

Hanno

P.S.: I've moved your message from the CMP Umbau-Wagen thread to this one.

[Bill Murray]

Good idea to jump on that thread that Rolf posted.
Lots of very rare, personal photos, not going to be seen in books or magazines I would suspect.
Thanks, Rolf
Cheers Bill

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Another photo of a Morris-Commercial fully converted to Kfz.15 standard, with the typical triangular doors. This is a CS8 15-cwt, not a PU 8-cwt, right?

Nope, its a PU.

Seen this one?

R.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Just won this picture of a Morris-Commercial PU 8-cwt fully converted to Kfz 15 standard:
Panzer Division Melder mit Beute Kübelwagen Kav. Div. Ebay item number: 300060409977

[Rolf S. Ask]

Hanno that is a nice phot!

And what are the general opinion on making such a replica body on to any CMP or english vehicle?
Anyone done it yet?
I have plans for a C15 (I know it should be F15), but don't know when to find the time...

Rolf

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Rolf S. Ask
And what are the general opinion on making such a replica body on to any CMP or english vehicle?
Anyone done it yet?

Rolf, I think it would be a great conversion, and not a waste to use a chassis/cab which would be hard to restore back to original configuration.

The big question is, other then the Bedford MW 15-cwt and Morris-Commercial PU 8-cwt (see above), which British or Canadian trucks were retrofitted with a Kfz 15 body?

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Moderator's note: split off the non-converted Morris' to the thread Beute Morris-Commercial trucks

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Pic found in Under New Management, this Morris-Commercial 15-cwt was most certainly retrofitted with a new body by the Germans. Like Bill said, it most certainly qualifies as an Umbau-wagen, but what type? Was this a gun tractor?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Found the same picture, plus another one on the Axis History Forum. Seems it was in use as a recovery vehicle - it looks like it has a lifting beam at the rear?

[Keith Brooker]

Thought you might like to see these photos of Morris commercial photos that i bought from Ebay. I have about 8 photos from the same unit. I am trying to find any photos of the 1944 Morris C8 GS in army use. My Morris came out of the Army in 1957 so they must be some about.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Again from the Axis History Forum, another picture of a Morris-Commercial PU 8-cwt Kübel.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Further to the first picture of this thread plus the ones posted by Keith, which shows a PaK tractor conversion, here are a few pictures of a similar conversion.

Contrary to the first variant above, this one has retained its original GS cargo body, albeit with an ammunition locker fitted to the front headboard. This second version also has its British front window replaced by a German one.

H.

[Ryan]

One for you Mike, it's in the wrong hands though.
Seller has a couple more pics with CS8s too.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Port-Photo-Ge...item45f80cb778

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Ryan

One for you Mike, it's in the wrong hands though.
Seller has a couple more pics with CS8s too.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Port-Photo-Ge...item45f80cb778

Ryan,

Nice find, I moved your post as it is more related to this thread (Mike would never convert his CS8!).

They are PaK tractor conversions as seen in the pictures above. Looks like at one point in time the Germans had more CS8's in service than the British!

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Looks like at one point in time the Germans had more CS8's in service than the British!

Yes seems that way Hanno

One quirky thing is, the Japs would have captured some also.. in Malaya . I've seen pics of a compressor CS8 on a bridge in Malaya ... demoloshing work .

The Japs also used some cab 11/12 DND trucks ....

MIKE

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Some new (to me) pictures of a PU 8-cwt Umbauwagen