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  #1  
Old 09-03-21, 14:10
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Default 4-wheel drive Maple Leaf truck

Spotted the 4x4 Maple Leaf. Was this a prototype?

https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-52802709/...ge/n2/mode/1up
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Maple4X4.jpg   4x4ml.jpg  
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  #2  
Old 10-03-21, 00:05
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GM had ready made running gear with the 1 1/2 ton Chev and the 4x4 GMC. It would have taken "5 minutes" to produce a Maple Leaf 4x4 using either of those as a base.
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  #3  
Old 10-03-21, 04:17
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Default yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lang View Post
GM had ready made running gear with the 1 1/2 ton Chev and the 4x4 GMC. It would have taken "5 minutes" to produce a Maple Leaf 4x4 using either of those as a base.
I wonder if any of these rare trucks were issued to the Australian forces, considering it was assembled by GMH . GMH are referring to it as a "tractor" meaning it was a artillery tractor ? I seem to recall a pic of one in the Vanderveen revised edition ww2 book, the edition with the Diamond T tank transporter on the cover. It's a GMH version of the Ford M-H in some ways. The vehicle is RHD. No quantity production as far as I know. And we don't know the time scale involved, maybe 1939 because it has 39 front sheet metal / headlights.

BTW I feel my post deserves a separate thread as the truck is so unusual and rare , not a ubiquitous 4X2 model.
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Last edited by Mike Kelly; 10-03-21 at 05:38.
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  #4  
Old 10-03-21, 09:58
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Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Mike, I moved it back into a separate thread.
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  #5  
Old 10-03-21, 11:10
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Default Truck, 30-cwt, 4x4, Gun Tractor (Maple Leaf)?

The thread Canadian Chevrolet Maple Leaf 4x4 artillery tractors? has some info on what this most likely is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
I have not heard before of Maple Leaf trucks being supplied to the KNIL. I have looked through my references and found a vehicle which fits your description in Bart Vanderveen's The Observer's Fighting Vehicles Directory World War II (revised edition), p. 233:

"Truck, 30-cwt, 4x4, Gun Tractor (Maple Leaf)
6-cyl., 80 bhp, 4F1Rx2, wb 134 in. The Maple Leaf was a product of GM Products of Canada Ltd and could be described as a heavy-duty Chevrolet. This unit was produced for Australia, where it was fitted with GM-H cab and fixed-side body."

The picture (sorry, no scanner) shows a chassis/cowl (front end sheet metal plus windscreen) on large (20"?) tyres and a spare tyre fitted behind where the cab would be.
As noted by Vanderveen, "this unit was produced for Australia", but I cannot recall seeing pictures or references of these in Australian Army use. Did GM Holden deliver vehicles to the KNIL?
Now with the picture from Vanderveen side by side with the finished truck:

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Last edited by Hanno Spoelstra; 10-03-21 at 19:16. Reason: added picture
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  #6  
Old 11-03-21, 01:09
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
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Default 1940s commercial trucks

I have nothing to add specific to the question. However, my grandfather operated a trucking company in Canada from 1932 to the 1960s. He seemed to like Internationals over other companies. Maybe the local dealer was easier to work with - dunno.

But, he bought frame and chassis truck. He had skilled woodworkers and fabricators in his employees who built every box, arch, tailboard and trailer body from local materials. No factory pieces in his line-up. For the company to delivery "incomplete" trucks (or tractors as it were), was therefore not unusual for the times.
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  #7  
Old 11-03-21, 03:46
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Default Cab

The closed cab example has a GMH built cab fitted . Notice the rectangular vent on the cowl . Bart 's pic shows a Canadian made cowl by the look of it.

So what type of axles were fitted ? Did GM Canada manufacture 4x4 axles prior to building CMPs ?

Just notified the rear axle in Barts pic looks like a split axle housing

Also Barts pic is of a 1940 model ( side lights on the guards ) ,the closed cab is a 39 model
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Last edited by Mike Kelly; 11-03-21 at 03:56.
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  #8  
Old 11-03-21, 05:07
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Fuel tanks are also different, Mike.

David
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  #9  
Old 02-11-22, 16:14
Konstantin Chernov Konstantin Chernov is offline
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Default Four wheeled drive Maple Leaf

Is this an experimental car? Joint creativity with Marmon-Herington or own development?
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  #10  
Old 03-11-22, 05:14
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Default 4x4

I have previously seen a pic of a number of these 4X4 Maple Leaf trucks lined up at a GM-H assembly plant , from memory it was at Fishermens Bend. The truck pictured has a GM-H manufactured cab fitted , the little rectangular cowl vent and the quarter vent door windows are typical.

Years ago somebody in Melbourne contacted me with a query about these 4X4 Maple Leaf trucks , can't recall if he was restoring one or after parts. There was a VMVC member who had one listed in the old membership list but that was many years ago, he was living near Eden in NSW.
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  #11  
Old 03-11-22, 11:11
Konstantin Chernov Konstantin Chernov is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kelly View Post
I have previously seen a pic of a number of these 4X4 Maple Leaf trucks lined up at a GM-H assembly plant , from memory it was at Fishermens Bend.
That is, it was not a single sample?
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  #12  
Old 03-11-22, 13:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konstantin Chernov View Post
Is this an experimental car? Joint creativity with Marmon-Herington or own development?
Interesting picture, not seen it before.

I merged your thread with an earlier one on 4x4 Maple Leaf trucks. Also see What makes a truck a Maple Leaf?, this may contain some more info?
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  #13  
Old 03-11-22, 19:55
Konstantin Chernov Konstantin Chernov is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
Interesting picture, not seen it before.
This image is interesting because the truck is equipped with a body for transporting troops.What is the wheelbase of this truck? Also 134"?
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  #14  
Old 03-11-22, 20:12
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Default Maple Leaf model 16-40/E8 with special stores lorry body

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konstantin Chernov View Post
This image is interesting because the truck is equipped with a body for transporting troops.

What is the wheelbase of this truck? Also 134"?
It is not a body for transporting troops. A "Stores lorry" means a truck to transport stores, or stock or e.g. mechanical spares or wireless equipment spares.

Going by Mike's post, this is a Maple Leaf model 16-40/E8 truck with 157-3/4" wheelbase and "special stores lorry body"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kelly View Post
I have the 1940 GMH NASCO parts book. The front cover of the book states "SPECIALLY COMPILED FOR THE AUSTRALIAN COMMONWEALTH MILITARY FORCES". The book is for sedans and trucks

1940 Maple Leaf was series 16 - diff ratio was 7.16 to 1
*snip*
1940 MAPLE LEAF
The Maple leaf model 16-40/E12 ... Chassis cab 157-3/4" wheelbase with special Office Lorry body
..............................16-40/E8 ...............................................wit h special stores lorry body
..............................16-40 /E6 ................................................wi th special breakdown vehicle body
The AWM have that pic incorrectly captioned, it's actually a Maple Leaf office lorry, not Chevrolet.
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  #15  
Old 03-11-22, 22:43
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Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Default Office body unit?

This picture from a brochure - see the link in Mike Kelly's first posting - shows the same type of truck as in Konstantin’s photo.

It is labeled as an “office body unit”.

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  #16  
Old 04-11-22, 03:23
Paul Singleton Paul Singleton is offline
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Default GM four wheel drive

I believe that the four wheel drive components were supplied to General Motors by NAPCO, northwestern auto parts company. Marmon Herrington seems to be more associated with the Ford products.
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  #17  
Old 04-11-22, 05:08
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
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Default Office or stores

Hanno,

Lorry/truck mounted office bodies were generally not equipped with an enclosed wire mesh screen on all sides, whereas stores bodies were. It appears the same base body was used for both.

Neither the 1939-40, nor the 1941 spare parts lists for the Maple Leaf Series 16 lorries list a driven front axle in the descriptions, nor is there an artillery tractor version listed. The data provides only a 'Rear Axle Ratio' listing and the parts lists shows a beam front axle.

The Aust Army Series 16 body styles listed were:
1939:

16-CC1 platform
16-CC2: platform with dropsides
16-CHT: Horse transport

1940: (16-40/E?) WB = 157.75 inches

E6: breakdown
E7: GS with canopy
E8 Stores
E12: Office

1941: (16-41/E?) WB = 159.25 inches

E7: GS with canopy
E8: Stores
E12: Office
E17: breakdown
E20: advanced dressing station
E21: Disinfector

The image shows the Commonwealth number plate C-6301. AWM126 shows this as a Chevrolet E8 Stores Lorry with Marmon Herrington FWD. It appears to be the only one, unless someone can find some more listed elsewhere! It's a new one on me, so very happy to be able to read the plate in the image. The opposite page shows 'bins not fitted' so an unbinned stores truck.

Mike

Last edited by Mike Cecil; 04-11-22 at 05:18.
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  #18  
Old 04-11-22, 14:15
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Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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Thanks Mike, so Konstantin's photo shows a 1940 or 1941 E8 Stores lorry. I was surprised to read it was fitted with Marmon Herrington FWD as they are normally associated with Ford vehicles as Paul said.

Now, we need to find more info about that elusive "Maple Leaf 4-wheel drive tractor with fixed sides body" shown at the top of this thread.
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  #19  
Old 04-11-22, 17:25
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Default 4WD Tractor

I agree with you, Hanno, that the MH-AWD is mostly associated with conversions to Fords. The Australian Government was buying the kits from the MH company from 1939 onwards, and having them installed by Ford Australia, mostly for the LP 1 to 7 and No.10 artillery tractors in 4x4 and 6x6. I've extracted all the artillery tractors I can find listed in AWM126, and their are no Chev/Maple Leaf modified conventional trucks among them unless I missed a whole bunch. (Always possible, of course - I missed C-6301!). The Bart V book image shows a very similar cab to the Australian Ford-MH LP series artillery tractors, which doctrine required have the open cab for observation purposes, whereas the GMH image shows a closed cab.

Maybe during the early stages of mechanisation in the late 1930s, the Aust Army experimented with both Ford and Chev/Maple Leaf conversions to AWD, which would fit with the 'Two Engine' Mechanisation Policy of the late 1930s, but then concentrated on Ford. Conjecture of course, as I've not found anything to support that theory, but it makes sense if you are seeking vehicles from just those two suppliers.

Mike
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  #20  
Old 05-11-22, 14:56
Konstantin Chernov Konstantin Chernov is offline
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Thanks everyone for the info. I'm sorry for my bad English. Some things I don't understand. Is the body type "store" designed to carry various spare parts? Is the body type "office" designed for staff workers and equipped with benches and tables?
If I'm not mistaken, then in the photo below is a truck with an "office" type body. Why is there something like a dent in the upper part of the radiator mask? Is there an additional (oil) cooler installed there?
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Holden Chevrolet M1940 Gebirgsjäger-Regiment 141 6.GD.jpg   Holden Chevrolet M1940, Франция.jpg  
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  #21  
Old 05-11-22, 15:49
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Default 39 model

Hi
The truck is a 1939 model, behind the brush guard you can see the short or narrow upper grill panel. The long bullet shaped headlight bodies are another 1939 parts. The 1940 model has the wider grill panel and short stubby headlights.

The front axle hubs don't look like Marmon Herrington hubs to me, but GM-H may have modified the M-H hubs to suit the GM pattern wheels.

I am sure there were a small number of these unusual Maple Leaf 4x4's assembled, probably less than fifty.
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Last edited by Mike Kelly; 05-11-22 at 16:01.
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  #22  
Old 09-11-22, 00:41
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default One survived........ as a junkyard wrecker.....

Was owned by a MLU member living near Sault St Marie.......
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  #23  
Old 09-11-22, 01:54
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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I believe you are talking of the MLU member who has a current Kijiji ad for "two 1940s early Cab 11s, Ford CMPs".

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars...mps/1636490334
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  #24  
Old 09-11-22, 17:13
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Default Yup......

...that's the one.
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  #25  
Old 09-11-22, 20:30
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Angus Bussineau
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  #26  
Old 09-11-22, 21:14
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Default Post War Record Book

It is interesting that in the GMH War Record book provided to employees in 1946, on pages 38-39 is a cross section of the 'over 200 body types' produced by GMH for the services. Many of the images are the same as the brochure above, but there are no 4x4 Maple Leaf MC types shown, and only three special purpose CMPs (GT No.8, T/A Portee, 6x6 breakdown No.4)

Mike
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