Need line drawings of CMP 2pdr portee

Sean Dunnage · #1 14-12-03, 16:51

Anyone out there have some drawings of the CMP Portee? I need them for an upcoming modelling project. Much appreciated.
Sean
sdunnage@sprint.ca

Phil Waterman · #2 14-12-03, 19:58

Just really getting started on my Pattern 12 C60L now that I have heat in the new shop. The question has been what body do I go with? The Austrialian portee body looks like it might be a very practical body with ability to haul other things. Of course then I'd need a 2pdr.

So if any of you out there have drawings, plans, good pictures etc. they would very useful for both a model version as well as possibly a full size version.

Cheers all and a happy holiday season.

Keith Webb · #3 14-12-03, 21:35

Phil,
I beleive John Belfield here has one but I don't know whether it is an original or replica. Knowing John it is probably original. He brought it to the Historic Truck show this year but I wasn't there to photograph it.
Does anyone else have some pics?

Don Birnie · #4 15-12-03, 02:12

Gentlemen
This is definetly a coincidence,for the last couple of weeks I've been looking for drawings for the 2pdr portee that was converted to the 17pdr tractor.It was built to the British design and used the 101 inch wheelbased C-GT.
In my search I was in contact with Paul Middleton who is a member of the MAFVA. He lead me to a Jan 1974 modelworld magazine that has 1:32 scale drawings by the late John Sandars of the Australian 2pdr portee.
I have these drawings and if I can find a way to scan them I will email them to anyone that wants them.
Now for my question, can anyone help me with my search for drawings or pictures of the17pdr gun tractor. I have Wheels & Tracks #33 that has pictures of the portee and one picture of the tractor.
Thanks in advance.

Slainte
Don Birnie

Sean Dunnage · #5 15-12-03, 02:46

I would love any drawings or pics you can share. I'll have a look in some of my older books to see if I can find the 17pdr tractor. I seem to recall seeing a picture of a CMP towing a 17pdr in the italian theatre.
Sean

Tony Smith · #6 15-12-03, 08:10

The Canadian "Factory produced" 2pdr Portees were built on a Chev FAT 101" WB without a winch fitted with a specialist variation of a 12 cab. The portees used by Australian forces in North Africa and Malaya were a new rear body placed on a standard F60s or C60S chassis with winch fitted, and had a standard 12 cab without roof.

Mike Kelly · #7 15-12-03, 15:59

Ah ! the cab 12 potty again .

I was at the show two weeks back where John Belfield exhibited his 2 pounder portee body on the cab 12 F60L chassis . John 's portee looked very original to me although he had taken measurments from a original body owned by Albert Bowden of Whittlesea and some small bits were fabricated in his workshop , but the result is most impressive . These were usually seen on the chev chassis as all the pics I have seen of them are chevs . I think GMH built the bodies , not sure as some variations exist .

The big problem for restorers of these things is finding a 2 pounder gun .

I have a factory drawing of the MCC 17 pounder C8 body , showing stowage etc.

Mike

Don Birnie · #8 16-12-03, 00:39

Sean I'll try to scan the drawings and email them to you but if you email me off the fourm with your snailmail address I'll photocopy the whole article and send it to you.
Tony, that is the one I'm looking for and would appreciate any other pictures of it.Specially the cab and deck and how the are attached to the chassis. I really don't need the gun tracks or ramps as I want to build the 17pdr convertion which brings me to Mikes factory drawings.
Mike I would definitely like a copy of those drawings if possible.

Slainte
Don Birnie

Mike Kelly · #9 16-12-03, 15:28

Don

The Morris 17 pounder portee drawing was kindly sent to me by Rob Van Meel of Groucho Publishing some time back .

It is a very large scale drawing on a huge sheet of paper , this makes it very hard to scan or copy . I may have to take it into town and copy it on a large copier .

The drawing shows the plan and side views etc.

Stand By for further news .

Mike

Rob van Meel · #10 26-12-03, 10:38

Hi all,

If need be, I can always make some more copies of mine and sent them through the post?

Just contact me, and we'll sort this out.

Rob

PS my Morris C8 portee (now C8-AT), built in January 1941 has not got any holes in the radiator cowl for the MCC badge. I still am toying with the idea to glue one up, but I have not convinced myself that this would fit in with the idea of originality, however it surely would make it easier for the public to at least get the make of the vehicle right in one go!

Hanno Spoelstra · #11 23-01-04, 11:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Kelly
The big problem for restorers of these things is finding a 2 pounder gun .

Well, here's one in an unexpected place: National Infantry Museum at Fort Benning, USA!

Alex van de Wetering · #12 23-01-04, 16:55

Or this one:

http://tanxheaven.com/leon/2pdrgun/2pdrgun.htm

located in the UK.

Alex

Hanno Spoelstra · #13 23-01-04, 17:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Alex van de Wetering
located in the UK

Ah, the 2 Pdr. Gun at the Museum of Artillery in the Rotunda, Woolwich, London. It is the only one in a museum in the UK, I have been told. Are there any others in private hands?

H.

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #14 23-01-04, 22:47

Hi Hanno

Here's a privately owned one. Belongs to one of our members of the Military Vehicle Collectors Society of South Australia Inc. the Club that runs the National Military Vehicle Museum.

Bob

Hanno Spoelstra · #15 24-02-04, 10:31

Bob, thanks for the pic.

Just found another example in private hands at the World War II Vehicle Museum and Learning Center at Hubbard, Ohio, USA. Go to http://www.wwiivehiclemuseum.com and click on "Displays".

Hanno

Philliphastings · #16 25-02-04, 10:59

I'm not sure if that is the correct nomenclature, but I do know of four unrestored 2 pounders in private hands in Australia, and none of them are on the club 'circuit' so there would appear to be a few australian manufactured examples still about the place.

A tip - check those fence strainer posts around the Albury Wodonga region of NSW/VIC - a good number were disposed of from Bandiana and tended not to travel too far afield.

I kicked a good 37mm barrel out of the dust in the back of a shop in Wodonga VIC as refcently as 1997 ! With a complete six pounder AT gun rescued from a farm near Wagga Wagga NSW the same year.

Phill Hastings

Wayne Henderson · #17 25-02-04, 11:22

Hi Phil, Don't mention Johnnies two or he'll kill you. He views this site from time to time.
There are 3 in our MV club and I sourced spares for the RAAHS from a collector in the wheatbelt who has the remains of 6, but only 1 barrel. He does have an impressive axle and knock off hubs that is rusting away until I pass that way again or find a barrel that is for sale.

Philliphastings · #18 25-02-04, 20:52

G'day Wayne - I wouldn't have dreamed of mentioning them until you did, by name, and NOW the cat's out of the bag.

Will I be killed by shot from a by 2 Pdr ?
If so that would at least make me famous as the only person since WW2 to have been killed by one I'm betting !

There must be about 12-15 2Pdrs in enthusiast's hands by that count

Nigel Watson · #19 26-02-04, 00:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Ah, the 2 Pdr. Gun at the Museum of Artillery in the Rotunda, Woolwich, London. It is the only one in a museum in the UK, I have been told. Are there any others in private hands?

Hanno a carrier owner on the south coast of England has a lovely 2 pdr, beautifully restored and has been featured in many of the publications over here. His name is Ron Piers.

Nigel

Mark W. Tonner · #20 26-02-04, 01:27

Sean;

Maybe not what your looking for, but this photo is from April 1941, Western Desert.

Cheers

Mark W. Tonner · #21 26-02-04, 01:36

Sean;

Here's another photo of one based on a CMP, and one more you might find of interest:

Cheers

#22 26-02-04, 09:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Nigel
Hanno a carrier owner on the south coast of England has a lovely 2 pdr, beautifully restored and has been featured in many of the publications over here. His name is Ron Piers.

No "s" Nigel, its just Pier. We see him quite often as he stops by to see the Ballards. The carrier is indeed another gem also and we hope to have him bring this and the 4x4 Morris-Commercial PU (not exactly common) to "Overlord" this year.

Ron has a bit of a problem driving the carrier any distance after his serious motorbike accident a couple of years ago which resulted in him leaving all the right elbow along the Armco of the M3; its a miracle he has an arm at all, but now rebuilt with a bespoke titanium elbow.

R.

Hanno Spoelstra · #23 26-02-04, 15:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Nigel
Hanno a carrier owner on the south coast of England has a lovely 2 pdr, beautifully restored and has been featured in many of the publications over here. His name is Ron Piers.

Ah yes, Ron Pier (as corrected by Richard). Now you mention it I remember seeing a pic of Ron's PU8/4 towing his 2-pdr. - Richard probably showed it to me.
Reading the other posts, it seems they are far more plentiful Down Under! So who's going to put one back on the back of a CMP?!?

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Here's another photo of one based on a CMP.

See some more in the thread CMP 2-pdr Portee.

Tony Smith · #24 18-03-04, 16:21

Sorry, Don, things move slowly in the world of CMP's particularly when your'e talking Chevs

Following are some cab shots of the Gun Tractor chassied Portees with a modified 12 cab.

Nigel Watson · #25 19-03-04, 00:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Ah yes, Ron Pier (as corrected by Richard). Now you mention it I remember seeing a pic of Ron's PU8/4 towing his 2-pdr. - Richard probably showed it to me.
Reading the other posts, it seems they are far more plentiful Down Under! So who's going to put one back on the back of a CMP?!?

See some more in the thread CMP 2-pdr Portee.

I might Hanno, have the two CMPs waiting a buyer/restoration. May even have a source for a 2 pdr, without wheels though! Richard, saw SRons Spierssss at Stoneleigh briefly and was glad he is still doing his restoration work, does a fine job. It would be great if you could get his vehicles out for your show.

Nigel

Rob van Meel · #26 19-03-04, 07:52

Although my Janauary 1941 built Morris-Commercial C8 gun portee has been converted into a C8-AT tractor, presumably by Morris in 1943, I still would not miss the change to obtain a 2 pndr to make up a early war gun portee impression.
So any leads to a 2-pndr are welcome.

Thanks,

Rob