Australian camo colours

[Wayne Henderson]

Time to start painting my FGT. Under a top coat of post war green I found the 3 colour camo patten but could see lines under that of a previous camo paint job. The FGT was originally painted in Queensland around 1942.
I was seeking the colour combination on the early Ford No.9 Guntractor, the 2 colour patten, not the latter 3 colour combination.
I've been told and read mid green and yellow, also brown and desert sand. There is a factory new black and white pic on Keith Webb's CMP site that could be either combination. Any ideas?

[cliff]

Last part from AIF orders dated 2 Jan 1942


Set no. Light Tone Medium Tone Dark Tone
__________________________________________________ _______________________

THREE - TONE

1. Light Stone N. Light Brown P. Khaki Green J.

2. Light Green H. Khaki Green J. Black U.

3. Light Stone N. Light Green H. Khaki Green J.

4. Light Stone N. Khaki Green J. Dark Green M.

5. Light Stone N. Light Brown P. Basalt Red S.

TWO - TONE

6. Light Stone N. Khaki Green J.

7. Light Brown P. Khaki Green J.
__________________________________________________ _________________________


The colour combinations selected , vide para. 2 above , are to be those which approximate most nearly to the colours of the country in which it is expected that the vehicle will operate e.g. :-

For Australian Coastal Areas use sets No. 2, 3, 4, or 6 .

For Australia Central and Northern Areas use set No. 5 or 7

Set No. 1 will merge under almost any circumstances .

Below is a photo of a 1/35 Chev heavy Recon wagon I made painted with an early two pattern cammo of 1942 service green & earth. I do have the formulas for the colours which can be made using Humbrol model paints which could then be given as samples to your local paint shop to make up if required.

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Wayne Henderson

Time to start painting my FGT. Under a top coat of post war green I found the 3 colour camo patten but could see lines under that of a previous camo paint job. The FGT was originally painted in Queensland around 1942.
I was seeking the colour combination on the early Ford No.9 Guntractor, the 2 colour patten, not the latter 3 colour combination.
I've been told and read mid green and yellow, also brown and desert sand. There is a factory new black and white pic on Keith Webb's CMP site that could be either combination. Any ideas?

Hi Wayne

The original paint combo was Cliff's No6, Khaki and light stone.

[Wayne Henderson]

Thanks Cliff and Keith for the info, I'll take you up on your offer Cliff as to what shade of Khaki green, to the mixed humbrol formula. I'll pm you.
Also great scale model Cliff, like the dirt.

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Wayne Henderson

Thanks Cliff and Keith for the info, I'll take you up on your offer Cliff as to what shade of Khaki green, to the mixed humbrol formula. I'll pm you.
Also great scale model Cliff, like the dirt.

PM sent with ALL the Aussie paint colour formula using Humbrol model paints as formulated & researched by Mike Cecil from the AWM. I'd use the pre 1942 service green which I am picking was used up to the end of 1942 or when stocks ran out.

Here is the formula for anybody else that wants it.Note the two shades of Service Green - Pre & Post 1942


Australian Army WW2 paint colors

All Humbrol paints unless noted


POST 1942 green

10 parts #150 – matt Forest Green
02 parts #100 – matt red brown
01 part #33 – matt black

PRE 1942 green

11 parts #10 – service brown
06 parts #2 – emerald green

ASCW light Earth (FS33440) – Aussie Mud colour

3 parts Revell 380
1 part #34 – matt white

OR (this is the one I use)

6 parts #94 – matt brown yellow
1 part #159 – matt khaki drab

Light Stone

8 parts #74 - matt linen
1 part #26 – matt khaki

[Mike Kelly]

Cliff

If you have the time, could you maybe post all of the colour formulas from Mike C's research . I've actually seen the original Aust. wartime booklet of camo colour chips ..two copies of these rare booklets turned up and one was passed on to Mike at the AWM. The booklets are in the form of a smallish notebook with each colour chip devoted to a page ..dated around 43 from memory . They were found by a civilian VMVC club member who works for the dept. of defense ( or whatever it's called now ) here in Melbourne, a storeroom cleanout unearthed the rarities.
Mike

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Wayne - my two bobs worth is Khaki Green No. 3 and Light Stone. These are the two colours I use for this era. If interested I can send you paint swatches. I utilise a paint company called Protec Paints who prepare the paint in their laboratory from my samples.

Bob

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Bob Moseley

I utilise a paint company called Protec Paints who prepare the paint in their laboratory from my samples.

Bob

Now isn't that funny! Protec Paints are the current suppliers to the ADF, and their Mil Enamel has some excellent properties. Scroll down and read the specs for oil proofness and weather resistance! Unfortunately, their Mil paint only comes in 5 shades; Green, Black, Tan, Pilbara red, and Desert Tan. Their "Tan" and "Desert Tan" are not quite right for BSC 61 Light Stone or BSC 64 Portland Stone, and I asked if they would colour match a batch if I provided a sample?
No, they wouldn't.
What, not at all?
Well yes, but for a minimum 2000 litres.

Maybe that was just for the Mil Spec 065/1 paint? Anybody willing to form a syndicate to order 2000lts of Khaki No3 and 2000lts of Light Stone?

Protec's HQ are in SA, but they have branches all around the country:

Adelaide, SA
97 -105 Bedford St
Gillman SA 5013
(08) 8447 6311

Welshpool, WA
87 Welshpool Rd
Ph(08) 9351 8727

Malaga, WA
38 Truganina Rd
(08) 9248 6400

Minto, NSW
111 Airds Rd
Minto NSW 2566
(02) 9603 5655

Hornsby, NSW
14 James St
Hornsby NSW 2077
(02) 9477 1444

Thornbury, Vic
2 Sheppard St
Thornbury VIC 3071
(03) 9416 6900

Dandenong, Vic
409 Hammond Rd
Dandenong VIC 3175
(03) 9794 0826

Ballarat, Vic
Fcty 2/ 16 Wiltshire La
(03) 5336 4879

Rocklea, Qld
35 Collinsvale St
Rocklea QLD 4106
(07) 3274 1188

Geebung, Qld
473 Newman Rd
Geebung QLD 4034
(07) 3216 5895

Townsville, Qld
33 Bolam St (cnr Langton St)
Garbutt QLD 4814
(07) 4775 7933

Darwin, NT
11 Catterthun St
Winnellie NT 0820
(08) 8947 1433

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Tony - I have used the Adelaide outlet, address listed by you for nearly ten years. I have no trouble getting the paint or the exact colour I want and usually buy in 2x4ltr lots.

Bob

[Tony Smith]

Bob, is that for their 342- series enamels?

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Cliff

If you have the time, could you maybe post all of the colour formulas from Mike C's research .
Mike

Mike those are all that I have. If there is more I'd like them for my records as well.

[Tony Smith]

And just to illustrate the modern combinations to compare with the WW2 patterns:

1. Cam Green, Tan, and Black,

2. Cam Green, Tan, and Pilbara Brown,

3. Cam Green, Tan, and Desert Tan.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Tony - I use the 304 Equipment Enamel and get the lab to make the paint to a satin finish. I use the same series paint on my instrument panel restorations.

Bob

[Wayne Henderson]

Thanks Bob and Tony.
Yes Bob, most Perth restorers of MV's use Protec Paints for the very same reason. The Camo green is a great colour and 307 mixed as a satin is far better than the old lusterless green used years ago, doesn't mark if you touch it with a greasy finger, and the areosol cans are great for touch ups.

I have taken painted nos Ferret parts to the Welshpool store and had 12 litres matched up. The store in Malaga offers the same service.

Tony, Protec here in Perth match any colour in any amount and at under $40 for 4 litres of 304 equipment enamel. Maybe a sanctioned border raid is in order.

Primer, Zinc Phosphate
363 Auto Acrylic modifided enamel, $$

[Tony Smith]

Ahh, but I was thinking of the 342 series enamels. Low gloss and you can DIP IT in oil for 24hrs, and it won't show a mark!

As for primer, you can't go past their "Etch Pro"!

[Snowy]

The following document (Word format) on WWII JEEPS NSW's web archive may be of some use to you.
Australian Army Vehicle Camouflage and Markings Directorate 1942:
http://202.63.50.228/WWIIJEEPSNSW/ne...rs/auscamo.doc

Hope that helps

Steve.

[phoenix]

I've got some info (and pics) of the protec products on this page of REMLR

http://www.remlr.com/paint.html

at the bottom of the page

[Jeff Gordon]

Ahh, but I was thinking of the 342 series enamels. Low gloss and you can DIP IT in oil for 24hrs, and it won't show a mark!

Tony, how is it with petrol? Is there any paint that can handle it?
mainly for my BSA fuel tank.
Maybe I could just be more careful when filling it up!
I use there etchpro and it is great.
Jeff

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Jeff Gordon

Tony, how is it with petrol? Is there any paint that can handle it?
mainly for my BSA fuel tank.

Jeff

Handle the truth?
Read my link "Excellent properties" in post #8 above:

"Quote: After air drying for 7 days, a panel immersed in petroleum spirit for seven days and then removed, dried and examined, shall show no defects and appear identical to an un-immersed panel similarly prepared."

Good S***, eh?

[sth65pac]

I second Tony's comments about Protec; it is grrreat paint. After countless attempts to remove it from my garage floor (even with some serious chemicals) most has stayed put. Petrol: no worries, it is over-sprayed onto one of my Gerry Cans (don't ask) and doesn't wash off.

I noticed it is a slight bit less dark than the WWII green, which, to 'correct' the green you need to add a little brown. (sorry I had to say...) If you want a good paint match to that on a Blitz, then the chassis (that's Aussie for Frame) rails in the engine bay are close & unfaded if they are covered with grease & crud you can find a bit of painted section which will be unaffected by sunlight etc.... Also when you separate the front cowl from the cabin, the paint in there is the original stuff unless you or someone else has re-painted.

You will notice, if you put a little dab next to the original, let it dry and then check it out in a few days, you can see the protec is a bit lighter... In my honest opinion I use it straight from the tin as no-one has perfect colour vision, and NO truck had perfect paint. (I have re-introduced the factory runs into my paintwork intentionally.. Not like some who have added them in haste

I would NOT suggest people change the tint themselves unless they are experienced painters otherwise you will have a browny greeny mixed paint Probably the way they were new (200 shades of Olive drab & Green).
Oh and inside ammunition boxes provides a good guide to how much variation there was... I have a few 1950's boxes of varying shades...

Ian

[Pedr]

Hi Tony,

Are you sure that the document that you have listed is Protec's sheet relating to the properties of their 342 series paint range?

It looks and reads awfully like the standard that they were to manufacture to, to meet the ADF's requirements. In a perfect world, the paint would perform exaclty as the standard requires, however, I would be very suprised if this was really the case.

If this really is the case and the paint performs exactly as the Milspec requires, I'd definately be in for ten litres of each colour out of your two thousand litres, and could probably interest a few more people to purchase similar amounts if you are serious about this. At ten litres, it's only 200 people.

As far as colour, if there is an original colour spec book with paint swatches/chips from the era, firstly the book will have had to have been moslty closed and stored in a cool dry dark spot for the colour to have not faded or changed it's properties.

Secondly, if this is the case, ( and I don't understand why no one has thought of this before ) the printing and painting industry have a standard system that they use called PMS or Panatone, so that no matter where you are in the world, you can print the same picture with the same colour. You can't send or transmit these by computer as computers are all set differently and you won't get the same colour, so they are printed into a book.

Therefore, if we can get a copy of the original color standard book, that has been stored correctly and colour match it with a PMS/Panatone book, we will have a colour that can be matched by any paint manufacturer around the world, for vehicle painting and even model makers.

Protec already have a colour standard for "Khaki Green No. 3" that Bob set up some years ago now, although I am not sure how they arrived at the colour that they decided upon.

So finally, I am definately interested in ten litres of each colour of 342 if they are colour matched to original colour samples, and will definately find more sales to move the paint.

Pedr.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Pedr

Hi Tony,

Are you sure that the document that you have listed is Protec's sheet relating to the properties of their 342 series paint range?

It looks and reads awfully like the standard that they were to manufacture to, to meet the ADF's requirements. In a perfect world, the paint would perform exaclty as the standard requires, however, I would be very suprised if this was really the case.

If this really is the case and the paint performs exactly as the Milspec requires, ...........

Pedr.

The document is not published by Protec, but is the standard published by APAS that replaced ADE/7650 (M) which covered the original Olive Drab Enamel introduced in the Mid 60's. Protec's 342 series paints fully comply to this standard, in fact usually exceed the critieria set. When I asked Protec for their MSDS and properties sheets for the paint, that is one of the documents they referred me to.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Pedr - I arrived at my version of this colour from the "Brenda" restoration. I located the colour on an area that had never been exposed to the elements therefore the colour had never been degraded.

Bob