M10 Achilles IIC - Canadian S 290465

[lillejens]

Does anybody have any information on this tank destroyer - I have found the following through Missing Lynx:
S290465
19 Mar 45 Issued to 259 Corps Delv Sqn (1st Corps), Received from 171 Veh Pk
08 Apr 45 Issued to B Sqn 1st Cnd Corp, Received from 259 Corps Delv Sqn (1st Corps)
31 May 45 Issued to 167 Veh Pk 1517AOD, Received from B Sqn 1st Cnd Corps.

The vehicle was delivered from Canada to Denmark in the 50'es along with 47 other M10 Achilles.
In 2006 our small private museum had the vehicle handed over from the Danish Army (as a loan) - since then we have repaired it to a runner.
Pictures can be supplied - if anyone is interested.

Please give any information on this vehicles.

Regards
lillejens

[lillejens]

This is pictures from last weekend, where the M-10 was presented for the public for the first time.

As written above we found the number S290465 under several layers of paint and the information on the number came from a canadian - 08 Apr 45 Issued to B Sqn 1st Cnd Corp. The vehicle is from 1943 and it must have a history from 43 to 45 especially because it has two serious shots in the front (transmission area) - one ricochet and one repaired piercing shot. It could have had a completely different number before S290465 and can have belonged to a different unit, but again there is no information at the Royal Artillery Museum and nothing from Bovington. Maybe someone here on the forum knows more??
Anyway there should exist a war diary from B Sqn 1st Cnd Corp 4 Canadian Corps.

Best regards
lillejens

[tankbarrell]

The WD number you found would only ever have been issued to that one vehicle. They were not transferred.

It is hard to find histories for individual vehicles, hopefully you will get lucky and either find a listing or better still a photo!

[Niels V]

here are some more pictures

[John McGillivray]

The time period of March-April 1945 is when the 1st Cdn Corps transferred from Italy to North West Europe. The only two units that would have used 17pdr M-10s were the 4th Anti-Tank Regiment RCA of the 5th Canadian Armoured Regiment; and the 7th A/T Regt. RCA of the 1st Cdn Corps Artillery. Both Regiments would have had two batteries of towed 17pdrs and two SP btys with 17pdr M-10s.

Note that the 4th A/T Regt were using 3 inch M-10s in Italy which were replaced by 17pdr M-10s after the move to NWE. 7th A/T Regt was using 17pdr Valentines (Archers) in Italy. These were returned to the British in Italy and the Regiment received 17pdr M-10 in NWE.

[lillejens]

Originally Posted by tankbarrell

The WD number you found would only ever have been issued to that one vehicle. They were not transferred.

It is hard to find histories for individual vehicles, hopefully you will get lucky and either find a listing or better still a photo!

Tankbarrel - thank you for your answer. This helps ok - but of course it would have been interesting with a history before the one allready mentioned. The WD number is quite high - I haven't seen that high a number in Normandy for instance?

[lillejens]

Originally Posted by Niels V

here are some more pictures

Tak Niels - I hope You had a nice time at the Græsted Veteran Træf - I can see from the pictures, that you must be one of the DMKF-boys - anyway one of the pictures is from the evening before the actual opening. Right?

[lillejens]

Originally Posted by John McGillivray

The time period of March-April 1945 is when the 1st Cdn Corps transferred from Italy to North West Europe. The only two units that would have used 17pdr M-10s were the 4th Anti-Tank Regiment RCA of the 5th Canadian Armoured Regiment; and the 7th A/T Regt. RCA of the 1st Cdn Corps Artillery. Both Regiments would have had two batteries of towed 17pdrs and two SP btys with 17pdr M-10s.

Note that the 4th A/T Regt were using 3 inch M-10s in Italy which were replaced by 17pdr M-10s after the move to NWE. 7th A/T Regt was using 17pdr Valentines (Archers) in Italy. These were returned to the British in Italy and the Regiment received 17pdr M-10 in NWE.

Hi John - thank you for your answer. Your information correspond with what we found out - i.e. that it must have been part of 4th A/T Regt - B squadron - We have marked it as B2 (second vehicle in B squadron) - the information on Italy and 3 inch M-10's and the receavement of new Achilles is new to us and very interesting. That of course explains the high WD number.

lillejens

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by lillejens

Does anybody have any information on this tank destroyer - I have found the following through Missing Lynx:
S290465
19 Mar 45 Issued to 259 Corps Delv Sqn (1st Corps), Received from 171 Veh Pk
08 Apr 45 Issued to B Sqn 1st Cnd Corp, Received from 259 Corps Delv Sqn (1st Corps)
31 May 45 Issued to 167 Veh Pk 1517AOD, Received from B Sqn 1st Cnd Corps.

and

Originally Posted by lillejens

Hi John - thank you for your answer. Your information correspond with what we found out - i.e. that it must have been part of 4th A/T Regt - B squadron - We have marked it as B2 (second vehicle in B squadron) - the information on Italy and 3 inch M-10's and the receavement of new Achilles is new to us and very interesting. That of course explains the high WD number.

From the information you have provided (first quote above), the vehicle in question was never actually issued to a 'fighting' unit of the Canadian Army in North West Europe during the period of 19 March 1945 to 31 May 1945.

On 8 April 1945, it was issued to "B" Squadron, 25th Armoured Delivery Regiment (The Elgin Regiment), C.A.C. - the 'Armoured Delivery Squadron' which was under the command/control of I Canadian Corps (your B Sqn 1st Cnd Corp). It would seem from the information provided above that S290465 was held by "B" Squadron, 25th Armoured Delivery Regiment (The Elgin Regiment), C.A.C. from 8 April 1945 to 31 May 1945 at which point the vehicle was returned to Ordnance (167 Veh Pk 1517AOD) having never actually been issued to a unit. If the vehicle had of been issued to a unit during this time, there would be an entry to that effect.

Also, the first entry regarding the issue of S290465 to 259 Corps Delv Sqn (1st Corps) from 171 Veh Pk on 19 March 1945 - 259 Corps Delv Sqn (1st Corps) was the 'Armoured Delivery Squadron' which was under the command/control of I British Corps.

Cheers

[Niels V]

Hej Jens
Yes the Græsted show was really great this year, many different vehicles lots to see.
It was nice to see some of your stuff also.
There are some pictures from the show here http://www.ghrvpk.dk/graested2009.htm if any one wants to see.
Yes I am menber of DMKF and GHRVPK and accutualy spent quit a lot time talk to your group...
Cheers

[lillejens]

Originally Posted by Mark W. Tonner

and



From the information you have provided (first quote above), the vehicle in question was never actually issued to a 'fighting' unit of the Canadian Army in North West Europe during the period of 19 March 1945 to 31 May 1945.

On 8 April 1945, it was issued to "B" Squadron, 25th Armoured Delivery Regiment (The Elgin Regiment), C.A.C. - the 'Armoured Delivery Squadron' which was under the command/control of I Canadian Corps (your B Sqn 1st Cnd Corp). It would seem from the information provided above that S290465 was held by "B" Squadron, 25th Armoured Delivery Regiment (The Elgin Regiment), C.A.C. from 8 April 1945 to 31 May 1945 at which point the vehicle was returned to Ordnance (167 Veh Pk 1517AOD) having never actually been issued to a unit. If the vehicle had of been issued to a unit during this time, there would be an entry to that effect.

Also, the first entry regarding the issue of S290465 to 259 Corps Delv Sqn (1st Corps) from 171 Veh Pk on 19 March 1945 - 259 Corps Delv Sqn (1st Corps) was the 'Armoured Delivery Squadron' which was under the command/control of I British Corps.

Cheers

Hi Mark - this is of course both good and bad news. Good because it is important to know the right story. Bad - because we had hoped for a more interesting story.
But anyhow there must be more to it than this. I wrote earlier that the vehicle had two shots in the front - one of them quite serious judging from the work done on it. So how would You or anyone else suggest to go further back than I British Corps - is that at all possible? Could it have had a different number for instance if rebuild from 3" to 17 pounder. This is of course only speculation but if it in some theatre was put out of business and rebuild again with a 17 pounder - supplied with a new WD number - and then transferred to I Canadian Corps.

Regards
Jens

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by lillejens

Could it have had a different number for instance if rebuild from 3" to 17 pounder. This is of course only speculation but if it in some theatre was put out of business and rebuild again with a 17 pounder - supplied with a new WD number - and then transferred to I Canadian Corps.

Hi Jens;

The W.D. number would not have changed upon conversion from 3" to 17pdr.

Of note - of the ten M10 Achilles IIC that were transferred from 259 Corps Del Sqn to B Sqn, 25 Cdn Armd Del Regt on 8 and 12 Apr 45, 259 Corps Del Sqn had initially received one (on 30 Mar 45) from a Tank Troops Workshop (S235199) and two (on 19 Mar 45) from a Vehicle Park (S290465 and S290616), while the remaining seven came (between 21 to 24 Feb 45) from F Sqn, 25 Cdn Armd Del Regt (the Armoured Delivery Squadron which was under the command/control of First Cdn Army) who had received them from Ordnance stores during the period of 4 to 31 Jan 45 (S290712 - 4 Jan 45; S290489 and S290491- 12 Jan 45; S290631- 14 Jan 45; S290708 and S290784 - 22 Jan 45 and finally S290486 - 31 Jan 45).

It is possible that S290465 may have been an M10 17pdr battlefield casualty of the Jan-Feb 45 battles (or earlier) and upon recovery and repair had been returned to Ordnance within theatre for re-issue, where upon it was issued to 259 Corps Del Sqn on 19 Mar 45. It may have even served earlier in North West Europe with 62 A/Tk Regt (TA), RA, the ‘Corps A/Tk Regt’ under command/control of I British Corps, who had began to be equipped with the M10 17pdr in approx. Oct 44.

To be honest, tracking a vehicle history some sixty years on is a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack, especially if the vehicle in question had been a battlefield casualty that had been recovered and repaired and returned to Ordnance and re-issued ... but every little tid bit of information helps to solve the puzzle of its service life.

Cheers

[Scott Belanger]

I am going frolm memory here but according to my records the 96th Battery and 65th Battery belonging to the 5th Anti-Tank Regiment was also fitted with the 17 pounders while the other 2 Battery's 3rd &14th were using the 17 pound towed behind version. As well i have some personal records of one of the mechanics that if i remember correctly was charged with doing the modifications and they were done prior to this regiment going over to France on July 25-28, 1944. if anyone is Interested I can look it up, but i am pretty sure.
Scott