After Market Flatheads

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi all

Here's a site a mate put me on to. Could be worth investigating.

www.flatheads@halibrand.com

Bob

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bob Moseley
Here's a site a mate put me on to. Could be worth investigating.

www.flatheads@halibrand.com

Bob,

Hmm, first hurdle to take was the web site URL (lower the threshold for the customer, salesman Bob! )
http://www.halibrand.com/flatheadscom/ looks more like it. From what I see they offer "French Flathead" parts, Simca built the venerable flathead well into the 1960s for military applications like the SUMB truck.

Hanno

[Nigel Watson]

I have a SUMB which tows my trailer with carrier aboard. It has the same engine and is really good. Pops away (V8 thing!!) nicely and I reckon I get 10mpg from it too.

The site has got me thinking of getting one of these to put in my new truck! Mmmmm, wonder what BHP they are likely to be, 85 or 95? Any ideas?

Nigel

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Nigel
Mmmmm, wonder what BHP they are likely to be, 85 or 95? Any ideas?

Nigel,
To quote from an original SUMB manual;

type F7 CWM , 4.2 litres , 73.6 kW (100 ch) @ 3,200 rpm

Richard

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hmm, first hurdle to take was the web site URL (lower the threshold for the customer, salesman Bob! )

Well ther you are sir. That's why you are a Moderator and I'm only a mere mortal. I actually had the correct location but then went to their Home Page.

Bob

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bob Moseley
Well ther you are sir. That's why you are a Moderator and I'm only a mere mortal. I actually had the correct location but then went to their Home Page.

Well Bob, Moderators are here to help you mere mortals

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Nigel
I have a SUMB which tows my trailer with carrier aboard. It has the same engine and is really good. Pops away (V8 thing!!) nicely and I reckon I get 10mpg from it too.

The site has got me thinking of getting one of these to put in my new truck! Mmmmm, wonder what BHP they are likely to be, 85 or 95? Any ideas?

Nigel,

Well, since you won't be needing the SUMB anymore after you finish the Fordson Sussex 6x4 Universal Carrier transporter, why not have the SUMB donate its engine to the good cause?

Basically, there are two versions of the French military V8 flathead: a 4.0 and 4.2 litre engine. The only major difference is the crankshaft: the 4.2 unit has a longer throw (which can only be measured on the bench with specialised equipment). The 4.2 unit can be recognised in its original form by the compressor on top to drive an air over hydraulic brake system. Apparently, the 4.0 is more common that the 4.2 litre version. The “French Flathead” can be made to look like a wartime Ford V8 by swapping over the cylinder heads, camshaft and distributor.

Some characteristics found in Wheels & Tracks magazine issue no. 71:

Type: V8-cyl., side-valve (L-head), petrol, liquid-cooled
Make, model: Ford/Simca F7CWM/324.04
Displacement: 4184 cc / 255 cu.in
Bore x stroke: 80.97 x 101.6 mm
Power output: 100 bhp at 3,000 rpm
Torque: 26.3 kgm at 1,800 rpm
Compression ratio: 6.7:1
Carburettor: Zenith 32NDIX

Hope this helps,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
The 4.2 unit can be recognised in its original form by the compressor on top to drive an air over hydraulic brake system.

Here's a picture of one advertised for sale on MilWeb:

"4.2 V8 engine
Ford Mercury type flathead engine 4" crank 100bhp. Good take out £750.
01233 820219
Kerry Cheese 26 March '04"

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Looks like a late model military Flathead wadeproofed engine..

Any Idea what it is out of..??
Look at the distributor position..
See Wade proof spark plug leads..A little different from the early ones shown here..

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Alex Blair
Looks like a late model military Flathead wadeproofed engine..

Any Idea what it is out of..??
Look at the distributor position..
See Wade proof spark plug leads..A little different from the early ones shown here..

Alex,

It is a French made unit from a Simca Marmon 4x4 1.5 tonne truck, often refered to as a SUMB. Made in the 1960's. Quite common to see in UK at shows.

Richard

[Nigel Watson]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Well, since you won't be needing the SUMB anymore after you finish the Fordson Sussex 6x4 Universal Carrier transporter, why not have the SUMB donate its engine to the good cause?

Have sold the Marmon, went to a good home, another Scottish MVT member. Have discovered an interesting point about some of these V8s though. Returning from our Clubs AGM one freezing January afternoon me truck (SUMB) spluttered to a stop driving home. So parking it off road I lifted the bonnet to find the problem. Nothing obvious. Then I noticed the tall carburetor was white, so I felt it and it was freezing. Could this be the problem? I held onto it for as long as I could (said the actress to the bishop!) and then went to start her up and after a couple of turns she fired and away we went. I recounted this problem to the new owner (honest seller!). A month later he phoned me and said that he had encountered the same problem whilst traversing the snow fields of Forfarshire but subsequently had spoken with a V8 expert hot rod extra-ordinaire good with injuns guy and he said.......wait for it........ the French Army had trouble with the V8s overheating in the hot climates they were operating in so they fitted a spacer in the carburetor to take it further away from the exhaust manifold so the fuel didn't evaporate and voila they solved the problemo! Only trouble was they didn't reckon on a Scot buying one and using it in sub orez tempses did they! But like all good inventions, the Scots solved the problem and moved the exhaust manifolds higher up so they were closer to the carburetor again! Just kidding...... we took the spacer out and now it is great in cold temperatures. So Canada you all know, Australia you do too, Holland, Belgium people so do you and the French well enough said! They started it!! So there's a quick fix recited in a long way.

Nigel

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Nigel
So there's a quick fix recited in a long way.

Nigel,

Delightful and useful story, though.

Have sold the Marmon, eh? Does that mean the Ford UC transporter is coming along nicely?

H.

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by Richard Farrant
Alex,

It is a French made unit from a Simca Marmon 4x4 1.5 tonne truck, often refered to as a SUMB. Made in the 1960's. Quite common to see in UK at shows.

Richard

Thanks Richard....
Very familiar with the Ford flatheads up til '54..used to drive them and race them...Didn't even know they were built after '54....God bless 'em...They will be around forever..

[Nigel Watson]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Have sold the Marmon, eh? Does that mean the Ford UC transporter is coming along nicely?

Coming along just nicely. Everything almost ready for the paint. Still swithering about the V8, thought of the postwar ones but company that has them is in the States I believe. Did they buy all of those and ship them over (the ones mentioned in this thread I think)? Or are they available in Europe?

Transporter nomenclature is another thought provoking area I will need to address once I have to register it. Any thoughts? David what would have been the description on the data plates of the 6x4 Fords that went to South Africa with searchlight bodies do you think? My theory is that it was a couple of these that were used as yet I can't find any other 6x4 that went to SA.

Nice 6x4 Ford on Ebay just now, later style cab. Item No. 2470576758.

Nice picture of Canadian trailer on back of MVT Windscreen Magazine this month. Wooden sided style.

Nigel

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

http://i21.ebayimg.com/03/i/01/95/0a/9d_1_b.JPG

Is this a M-H conversion?

The Ford 1942 Dagenham listing states that the S.Africa searchlight trucks were either of two models:

W0T1: 'Ministry of Supply (S.Africa D.F.) Searchlight Lorry (Aux Gear Box) N.C. 6 wheeled Sussex Long Bogie 7 3/4 in articulation 9.00 - 20 [tyres] w.b. 143 1/2 + 42 7/8 in' with searchlight body by outside supplier.
E917T [same as before]. However this was a 1939 Model so had the '39 front end compared to the W0T front end.

The Build Plate would in theory have the standard Ford Motor Co Limited, Dagenham, plate.

I have yet to confirm that Dagenham produced the 22 and 30 HP V-8s and did not import them...I assume that they did from 1936 onwards.

[Snowtractor]

Used to happen to my 1974 carburated Ford F-150 302 V-8 pickup when driving in -30 in howling wind and blowing snow on the way to the farm in the prairies. If you poured a little gasline antifreeze on and down the carb and let it sit a few minutes , step on the gas peddle to the floor ( cause its flooded now) it would fire right up and away we would go. No more problems with fuel injection now, except freezing the gas filters located under the car now, but that is a diferent story.
Sean

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Nigel
Coming along just nicely. Everything almost ready for the paint. Still swithering about the V8, thought of the postwar ones but company that has them is in the States I believe. Did they buy all of those and ship them over (the ones mentioned in this thread I think)? Or are they available in Europe?

Nigel, there should be one with your name on it in the UK. For starters, there's that engine listed on MilWeb as quote above.
Also try RR Motor Services, according to their website they are "the UK's major supplier of the rugged French Army SUMBs". If anything, they did have reconditioned SUMB engines for sale at Beltring 2002 for UKP 1,250.
Will your transporter truck be running this show season?

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Here's a picture of one advertised for sale on MilWeb:

Re-advertised:

4.2 V8 engine
Ford Mercury type flathead engine 4" crank 100bhp. Good take out £750.
01233 820219
Kerry Cheese 25 August '04