T16 restoration starts in earnest

[andrew honychurch]

So after sitting around for the last 30 years, yes it really is that long since I last played with the Carrier, I have started a full nut and bolt restoration in earnest.. Have now stripped the drivers compartment and fully rebuilt all the steering controls, taken out the engine and gearbox. The gearbox has been rebuilt as it was rather full of rust and the two bearings on the mainshaft had had their day. It turns beautifully now, but the main drive male pinion on the back of the gearbox is badly chipped and worn, so I will need a new one of those if anyone has one please let me know. The engine was run before I took it out and all seemed fine except a leaking carburretor. The distributor has been rebuilt and a new modern 12volt coil adaptor plate added to the top. Lots of work to be done inside the hull . Loads of little bracketry has rotted away and in the rear much of the tin boxes will need making again. First two batches of good bits have already been sandblasted and primed. Here are some photos to start the thread.

here is a link to my photobucket page where I will load the photos as I go.

http://s714.photobucket.com/albums/w...sal%20Carrier/

Andrew

[Marc van Aalderen]

Hello Andrew,

If the male sprocket is the same as an Universal one then Dirk Leegwater has them NOS. Good luck with your restauration.
I took my Universal and Dingo to W&P last week. Had great fun despite the terrible dust. I suppose you were there too?

Cheers,

Marc van Aalderen

[andrew honychurch]

Hi Marc. Yes I was there, desperately and pretty much unsuccesfully looking for parts. I shoudl add that the serial number is T 440587, but not sure how to edit the original post now. I will try to find out whether the drive gear is the same on Universal as T16. How do I contact Dirk? I can tell you that it has six internal splines and 16 outer gears. I have about half of all the outside gears left, well I mean all are there but they have broken aroudn half there length. I think we broke quite a few getting the engine and box out as it was well and truly stuck. Some of my helpers were a bit over enthusiastic in waggling the suspended engine and box around to free the splines! Ah well, they must have been pretty weak anyway. Not the end of the world. gearbox was pretty yuck and stuck in gear as the selectors had rusted up. Anyway, it will be a lot better for a rebuild. Going to leave the engine for now, and get the rest of the hull stripped. Plan is to weld new track guards down the sides and above the rear axle as David Gordon has done so well on his. Mine came out of a scrapyard in Portsmouth in 1978/9 . Floor not too bad but need to repair some of the drain plug holes which are very rough where the rust has got to them. Does anyone know if the floor plate is threaded for the plugs or is there an insert? anyway, very much enjoying it and I feel I have already done the worst job which was stripping the drivers compartment out which was horrible. Gearstick lower swivel housing was a complete block of rust, but is now fine after some judicious use of heat and oil. More to follwo soon. Andrew

[Marc van Aalderen]

Hello Andrew,

If you want I can get the sprocket for you and ship it. Need to talk to Dirk anyway. But please, let somebody confirm the part numbers are the same. I have no T16 parts list so can't help you there. You can find Dirk through his website www.lwdparts.com. The sprocket is listed under Canadian parts and costs a mere € 25.

Cheers,
Marc

[andrew honychurch]

Hi Marc, thats kind of you. I have looked at the website and it certainly looks the same. I have the T16 parts number somewhere, but can measure it up and let you know by pm what the dimensions are if you like. Dirk may well know if it is the same if you speak to him. Thx andrew

[Marc van Aalderen]

Hi Andrew,

I will call Dirk and ask him. To be continued.....

Marc

[andrew honychurch]

Can anyone help with a question about the T16 please? I gather there is a company in the US that makes new front side skirts for the Universal Carrier and I was wondering whether they are the same as a T16? I sort of imagine that they are not, but advice would be very helpful . Also , cannot recall what the company is called now. I think the guy who owns the company may have been displaying some of his products on the Wildenberg stand at War and Peace.

Also, in terms of production number, can anyone tell me how many Universal Carriers were produced vs the 13,000 ( I think) T16?

thx andrew

[Marc van Aalderen]

Hello Andrew,

I believe the total number of Universals is around 100.000. Ford Canada built approximately 28.000 of that number.

BTW Tried Dirk a couple of times. No luck just voicemail. Will keep on trying.

Cheers,
Marc

[RichardT10829]

Andrew i know the front fenders on the T16 have a different radius to the Universals so with that in mind the sandguards may not be the same.... however that is not to say they could not be made to fit

[Marc van Aalderen]

Andrew,

Just remembered I had this Company under my Favourites. They are called Midwest Military and their link is http://www.midwestmil.com/index.html

Marc

[RichardT10829]

would not care i have just made a run of Mk1 style sand guards for Kevin, Myself, and one for Martyn.....

[andrew honychurch]

Thanks Guys, interesting information on the numbers. Seems to be more T16's around nowadays than Bren Universals, but maybe the latter are more dispersed.

Thanks for the link to Midwest and the information on the radius' which I sort of suspected. I will try to take a look at the website. When it comes down to it with the cost of shipping I may be best to get them made over here. Anyone know how the beading on the bottom outer edge is made? Is it welded on to strengthen, or is it a rolled edge made by a special machine? To be honest, that appears to be the only tricky bit to the fabrication. Mind you , I am a bit in front of myself as I havent even got the hull done yet!

Oh, and anyone got some nice new fuel tank sender units??

[RichardT10829]

Andrew its a rolled edge and is very hard to fabricate, the metal is 16swg these were made in a press and without it, its very hard to get the metal to form correctly without it deforming. the ones i did i bent over sectional then brazed in the slits so it looks like it has been pressed. my other thoughts were to use steel brake pipe slit it then weld it onto the sheet however when i compared it to an original item the diameter of the pipe was slightly too small..... mind unless you had one held up against an original you would not know.

it will cost you in the region of $400 US to get a pair from John, then shipping and customs charges on top.

perhaps David (Horsa) could knock you up some paper patterns of his then you could make some yourself and save some cash. thinking on also i think the T16 sand guards have like a right angle flat bar welded onto the outside to carry a tool or something.....you will see on Davids thread.

Rich

[andrew honychurch]

After seeing Seans posts I was driven to get on with taking my T16 to be welded. Winched it onto the trailer today and took it down to the welder. Her are some photos, I suppose I will think I am half way once its back from him. Not sure thats right, but it seems a good mind trick nevertheless.

[andrew honychurch]

and one more!

[horsa]

In my opinion you'll be well past half way once you have it stripped and painted. Plus reassembly is coasting downhill compared to tearing it all down and then having to clean up or rebuild parts and assemblies.

[andrew honychurch]

I hope you are right, but I still have to attempt the rear axle, complete the engine build and set about the bogie assemblies! I am sure now that the hull is going to be away for a few weeks it will allow me to get along with those tasks. I am wondering whether not to go quite as far with the rear axle as you did. I intend on taking off the inspection covers on the brakebands and have a good look in. I will flush out the diff and see what comes out! Then rebuild both brakes either end. I hope it will save me a little bit of time not breaking the diff out. Any thoughts David?

[horsa]

Since yours was running with no issues from the differential, I'd say flush it out on the inside and repaint it on the outside. I had to tear mine down because it was a complete unknown. It was supposed to be NOS but having been stored by other people outside in the rain and mud for untold years, it was completely rusted over. I had no way to know if it was usable or not. And even if it were NOS, it could have still been rusted on the inside as well due to poor storage.

We're stuck with cold and damp conditions here at the moment as well. I have parts from two other smaller projects that are stripped and waiting to be painted. I'm priming some items when I can, one at a time on pieces of wire but its been slow. Spray outside under a covered porch and then carry them throught the house so I can hand them to very slowly dry in the garage which has really high humidity. Really my only option if I don't want them to start rusting again.

[Jordan Baker]

Andrew,

Your making good prgress. When I got into mine I first throught "oh geez, what I have done now" But then I just started doing one piece at a time. Sure it looks like nothing was being accomplished, but after a couple of months I'd have a pile of small stuff done. Then after 6 months or so I'd put the stuff all on and I'd amaze myself at what I had done. 7yrs later I think Im down to having enough fingers (thumbs included) on both hands to account for whats left to do or get(minus the tools).

And youve found one of the best communities for these vehicles anywhere in the world.

[andrew honychurch]

progressof sorts! visited my welder today and he has made some real progress with the welding. Hoping to be able to sandblast the hull within a couple of weeks now

[horsa]

Ah the fun of heavy grinding. Once you've had a spark go into your ear and gotten the little hairs smoldering, you'll forever afterwards keep them trimmed

Your progress is looking good though.

[andrew honychurch]

indeed! I have to admit that it is not me in the photo! His whole workshop is covered in a find grit courtesy of my T16! He doesnt seem to mind too much, hes used to it. This is the guy that "made" the Vickers light tank in the Jaques Liitlefield collection if anyone has seen that. He mainly makes things for councils, like fire escapes, but he has all the equipment and can pretty much do anything if you can motivate him! Like all these clever guys he needs nurturing!! Anyway, really pleased with progress so far.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by andrew honychurch

he has all the equipment and can pretty much do anything if you can motivate him! Like all these clever guys he needs nurturing!! Anyway, really pleased with progress so far.

Andrew,
Looks like you must have said the right words to Bud . Should not be long before you get it back, by looks of it.

[andrew honychurch]

Its been a little while since I posted any updates on the T16, and to be honest its been pretty dull stuff going on. I have now refurbed 3 of the 4 suspension units but the best news was a trip to my metalwork chap today, who has made some real progress. This Carrier had spent a long while in Pounds of Portsmouth scrap yard and like so many had filled up with water which had not done it any good inside, so there was a lot of new metal work to do . This has involved new track guards full length left and right and across the back. Even the bulkhead behind the driver and gunner had rot in it at the bottom and even at elbow height! Anyway, we have now replaced most of this and I have also replaced most of the rotted out drain holes in the floor. This entailed having new rings machined with the correct thread and then letting into the floor where they had rotted out. You can see most of this in the photos, there will need to be quite a bit of making good once it is blasted but I am beginning to feel quite pleased and excited at moving on once again. Hope you enjoy the photos which are not brilliant as they were taken with a blackberry and are not that clear

[Lynn Eades]

When you have the hull blasted and painted, and you start bolting bits back on, you will feel great!

[andrew honychurch]

indeed I will! The floor inside this T16 is very scabby with rust and I had been worrying about how this was going to come up when blasted. However, I have a little vision of it as the metal worker has to heat up the floor to blow the rust off it and what is left where he has done this is really not too bad! We will see in a few weeks I hope. Still plenty of tin work to do, which is pretty expensive, but I can get busy on making it move back and forwards once more

[RichardT10829]

looking great Andrew...i look at where you are and for some reason all i can hear in my head is the Thompson advert tune "Welcome to my World" hahahaha

Mine is due its first spray now and i know it will be great from that point so Lynn is right there as soon as its clean again.....much better feeling

[andrew honychurch]

thanks Richard, The first spray is always the turning point, suddenly this great lump of rust starts to look like something worthwhile. Dont forget to post up some photos of your Universal when its painted.

[andrew honychurch]

After what seems an eternity, today I collected the T16 from the sandblasters! Wow, its soooo clean! I hardly dare stand on it for fear of making it dirty. There are no horror stories thankfully, we addressed most of those when welding up the nasty bits. I can really feel we are past half way now, especially as I have already completed a lot of the parts to fit back on. I am going to spend some time filling some of the worst of the pitting, really to make it look a bit better. I realise some will view this as a waste of time, but if I can improve the worst bits I think it s worthwhile. Lots of data stamps on the panels exposed by the blasting. Does anyone know whether any of these are actual serial numbers?

[eddy8men]

the hull looks really smart, a good place to start the restoration proper. with regard to the numbers stamped on the armour i think they may be the part numbers for that particular piece of plate, my carrier has the same kind of thing but that is only an educated guess.

all the best

rick