Chev engine prefix question

[Keith Webb]

I've just picked up a couple of Chev engines with a "TBR" prefix for the engine number. I know Aussie Chev CMPs have "PR" "WR" or "SR" prefixes, can anyone tell me what "TBR" was, and what it may have been used in? I believe the engines were ex-GPO.

[cliff]

To Be Returned!

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Right! The answer appears to be from detailed study over the years that 'T' always stood for 'Truck' and 'R' for 'Right hand drive'. 'TR' was used initally on 1940 models, since they were just rhd truck engines. Subsequently AR, WR, ZR, XR, FR, PR. SR have been used but not necessarily in that order, and in different Model Years and for different end-users. There were probably variations in components. That said with say Holden assembly, it does appear that some mixing-up of engines destined for particular types of CMP occurred. Understandable given the vagaries of the crating deliveries.

By the way, 'R' mean passenger car engine.

However, what did the mysterious 'TRA' and 'TBA' mean? The answer appears to be that these are 1940 military-spec engines. Initial impression was that these followed-on from pure truck engines [Canadian engines all being built by Windsor Transmission Plant by the way with castings by McKinnon Industries Ltd of St Catherines]. I then thought that 'A' might appear to be 'Army', perhaps indicating end-user and / or mods from civilian spec. We know that these prefixes were replaced by 'AR' for 1941 Model Year, etc. That then leaves 'TBA'. I believe but cannot prove that Windsor could not cope with the incredible orders from the Brits in late June 1940 on top of the Canadian orders and GM of Canada contracted-out supplies of 216 engines from Buffalo aka Tonawanda Plant in New York State which had just opened-up [1938]. Code for these engines compared to Flint's was:

B, KB, ATB, TB

Note that a Flint-built 1940 heavy truck 216 rhd was 'TRA'. So, in fact 'TRA' has nothing to do with 'Army', and I suggest was in fact an imported batch from Flint Motor Plant and 'TBA' a similar batch from Tonwanda. I suggest that Windsor then added their own serial numbers and sent them to Oshawa accordingly. In other words these were 'overload' orders. Windsor then ramped-up production.

Because the British sent trucks to Alexandria both from the UK and arranged for direct delivery, those trucks in Aussieland with TBA/TRA engines were probably I suggest 1940 Model #11 cabs issued to the AIF and then shipped back in due course. Come war's end, demobbed trucks could have retained their original engines or very early ones were fitted into later ones after rebuilds etc.

[lynx42]

Very interesting to see the TBR prefix and to have it explained.

I have just picked up a vehicle with engine number LCB 903098. Are any of you able to throw any light as to it's origins?

The chassis number is 1150 - 353578. I believe that it is a 30cwt truck from 1940.
thanks Rick.

[Keith Webb]

Thanks so much for that interesting and detailed explanation of the Chevrolet
engine prefixes. Absolutely fascinating.

What this also means is I have two engines available for sale if anyone is interested. One has had water in it and will need a rebore, the other one looks really good in the bores, don't know whether the bottom end is OK or not.

Originally Posted by David_Hayward

Right! The answer appears to be from detailed study over the years that 'T' always stood for 'Truck' and 'R' for 'Right hand drive'. 'TR' was used initally on 1940 models, since they were just rhd truck engines. Subsequently AR, WR, ZR, XR, FR, PR. SR have been used but not necessarily in that order, and in different Model Years and for different end-users. There were probably variations in components. That said with say Holden assembly, it does appear that some mixing-up of engines destined for particular types of CMP occurred. Understandable given the vagaries of the crating deliveries.

By the way, 'R' mean passenger car engine.

However, what did the mysterious 'TRA' and 'TBA' mean? The answer appears to be that these are 1940 military-spec engines. Initial impression was that these followed-on from pure truck engines [Canadian engines all being built by Windsor Transmission Plant by the way with castings by McKinnon Industries Ltd of St Catherines]. I then thought that 'A' might appear to be 'Army', perhaps indicating end-user and / or mods from civilian spec. We know that these prefixes were replaced by 'AR' for 1941 Model Year, etc. That then leaves 'TBA'. I believe but cannot prove that Windsor could not cope with the incredible orders from the Brits in late June 1940 on top of the Canadian orders and GM of Canada contracted-out supplies of 216 engines from Buffalo aka Tonawanda Plant in New York State which had just opened-up [1938]. Code for these engines compared to Flint's was:

B, KB, ATB, TB

Note that a Flint-built 1940 heavy truck 216 rhd was 'TRA'. So, in fact 'TRA' has nothing to do with 'Army', and I suggest was in fact an imported batch from Flint Motor Plant and 'TBA' a similar batch from Tonwanda. I suggest that Windsor then added their own serial numbers and sent them to Oshawa accordingly. In other words these were 'overload' orders. Windsor then ramped-up production.

Because the British sent trucks to Alexandria both from the UK and arranged for direct delivery, those trucks in Aussieland with TBA/TRA engines were probably I suggest 1940 Model #11 cabs issued to the AIF and then shipped back in due course. Come war's end, demobbed trucks could have retained their original engines or very early ones were fitted into later ones after rebuilds etc.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I can't tell what that engine is! L prefixes were US 1953 series I think, but it's defo not a Canadian engine #. What is the CASTING DATE CODE and CASTING CODE on the side of the blocK? That serial number also makes no sense at the moment. Have you a photo of the build plate please? There was no 11XX series from 1940-46 but there was a 11XX series post-war....1 1/2 tons. There was no XX50 series though si I am at a loss at the moment.

[lynx42]

Hi David,
There is no build plate attached to the firewall but I have taken some photos of the engine and chassis. The chassis may have been a left hand drive one and converted to right hand drive as it has the holes and set up for it to be LHD.(See photo).

The engine is not a blue-flame as it has a full sideplate. The engine number in the photo is a bit blured, sorry.

The casting numbers came out quite ok, but I don't know how to read them. Is there a website which has the details?
Regards Rick

[Bob Carriere]

.... you got yourself a rum runner....

Bob

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

That's a 1952-3 US block and I think it's a 1953 235 cu in.

[Jacek Nitkiewicz]

OK, what about TBRA prefix on engine of my chevrolet ?

[Bob Carriere]

TB Tonawanda engine plant in the USA out side of Buffulo, New York

R for right hand drive A for military.

Comments welcome if above is not correct.

During the early years of productions engines were imported from USA to supplement the production facilities from Windsor, Ontario Canada.

Looks very much like the original factory engine for the truck.

Cheers

[Jacek Nitkiewicz]

Bob many thanks , engine was inspected by GM mechanics in 1945. Inspection plate was attached to the engine and it was repainted green so I was wondering if they put original engine back to the truck.