CMP C60L comes home

[George McKenzie]

This Truck use to be in my yard 30 years ago .



Here are the numbers
Model# C 60448 M-GS-15
Chassis C-60448-M-W
CAB 15
Serial # 3844334574
Engine # PR 3975100
Order # PE -197-11
Date APR 24-44


Bob Hammond told me that it was in an order for Australia that was canceled because the war ended so it was sold to civilion use .That makes sence as there is no military signs on it .This is the original paint .The decal on the doors is the Alberta Motor Association The wheels are 1100x20 .The push gaurd,rearview mirrors, spare tire carrier, and what goes infront of the tool box are missing .It is almost rust free .Now being a Ford guy what went on the side of the cab by the headlight,the oilfilter?Does anyone have information about this truck?

[Keith Webb]

If you could give us an enlargement it would help although it looks like some sort of civvy street mod as GM had repositioned the overflow tank to under the floor by that stage of production.

I've not seen that contract number down here but David H should be able to fill us in.

Originally Posted by George McKenzie

Now being a Ford guy what went on the side of the cab by the headlight,the oilfilter?Does anyone have information about this truck?

[Bob Carriere]

We have seen a number of "ODD" PE-197-12.....circa August 44-September 44. What set them apart is that they are ALL built with the 15cwt small axles.....even with helper springs the axles are the small ones and are usually equipped with 16 rims/tires in 10:50x16.......and this on a C60 L frame.

David had confirmed that this was a late Australian contracts.

This one from George is dated April 44 and is PE - 197 -11 and equipped with the full large C60 axle and large 20 inch rims........YET..... I have record of a similar (April 44 ) period C60L with the same PE - 197 - 11 contract with the small axles/rims.

Wonder if David can shed some light on the owner of that -11 contract....

Meanwhile....George.... that C60 of yours.....does it have a winch installed...?
That yellow paint could be its an airforce vehicle..... to bad you will have to get rid of it as you are addicted only to OD green .....

Bob C.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

These are the one that I know of:


CHASSIS MODEL: C-60448-M-W
CAB MODEL: 13
CHASSIS SERIAL: 3844335164
ENGINE SERIAL: PR3970483
ORDER: PE-197-11
MAY 4-44

CHASSIS MODEL: C-60448-M-W
CAB MODEL: 13
CHASSIS SERIAL: 3844333739
ENGINE SERIAL: PR3972011
ORDER: PE-197-11
APR 7-44

VEHICLE MODEL C-60448-M-GS-15


CHASSIS C- 60448-M-W
CAB 13
SERIAL # 3844334575
ENGINE # PR 3975100
ORDER# PE-197-11
DATE APR 24-44
MODEL # C 60448M-GS-15

This one is also likely a truck from the same contract:

3844335064

I have no info about these but someone does? I just cannot understand at this juncture why a truck would be left behind in Canada, It is more likely that either it was shipped back after having been claimed by the DND (as happened in the UK) or, and this is more plausible to me, that entrepeneurs bought it as part of a bigger deal and had them shipped back. This also happened in the UK. However, I stand to be corrected!!

[George McKenzie]

The picture on the side of the hood never had anything attached to it . It has the air compresser and had possibly a winch but it look's like it was removed as it has the drive for it . It was in a parade 25 years ago and had some red paint put on it but it is almost gone now. The original paint is very good and there is no signs of any military markings .I have the manual MB-CI that they were using but I should have a C2 .The only other Cheve thing I have is My F15A # 11 has has Cheve rear ends in it .Things don't rust here if they havn't been on the hiway salt The motor needs overhauling as it don't run .

[George McKenzie]

The front axel .

Thank's for all the input .These mysteries become very interesting .I was told by an American, that You Canadians are lucky "you know where most of your things spent their time .We Ameriacans have very little knowlage of the history of our vehicles . In my case I know about where most of my things were after the war ,and what they did .

[Comox Air Force Museum]

Morning George. Take a look behind the passenger seat in your truck and see if the REL plate is still attached to cab wall. The data plate is for Research Enterprises Limited. These trucks were used to pull Radar trailers. The one we have still had RCAF Comox on the door when we got it.
Rob
http://www.comoxairforcemuseum.ca/Ai...evehicles.html

[Bob Carriere]

The yellow is original airforce colour......


Here is a pic of a known airforce truck located in Eastern Ontario.... it has been manipulated/darkened to better read the numbers.

It still has the airforce crest on the cab doors...... and the original winch.

May 9th 1944...... and it has the large axles and 20 inch rims.... box has been cut up to accommodate a wing plow......

David please add to your "repertoire".....

Bob C.

[Bob Carriere]

David.... another one for your collection..... with 20 inch rims.....located central Ontario.

[George McKenzie]

Thank's for the tip Rob .I never saw this litle plate till you said where to look .



Then I got out my air craft paint remover and under the door decals is the Royal Air Force decals . So now we know the rest of the story . A little knowlage goes a long way . Where would one ever find the winch that goes on the truck ? Maybe I can make one out of a truck rearend .Would there be a manual for this winch ? George

[Comox Air Force Museum]

George. The winch is a very special piece of kit on the truck because of the way it mounts. Has two large flange bearing on each side.

These are pictures of the progress of our truck. These were taken on her first drive in about thirty years.

Still missing left fenders but it's getting there.
Rob

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Comox Air Force Museum

George. The winch is a very special piece of kit on the truck because of the way it mounts. Has two large flange bearing on each side.

Rob

Looks similar if not the same as a standard winch mounted in CMP chassis

[Comox Air Force Museum]

Thanks Cliff. I was just referring back to what George said, trying to make one out of a truck rear end. It's completely different the way it's mounted.
Rob

[George McKenzie]

I have the flange bearing brackets for the winch .There is a cab here that I might get a fender for you . You should not have any trouble getting a fender .My friend here has a lot of 1100x20 used army tires if you would rather have them than what is on it now .I have two fuel tanks but no battery box .Is that a carrier for gas cans in front of the tool box? Has anybody got a picture of the radar trailer that it pulled ?

[Comox Air Force Museum]

The tires on your truck look like the original tires that were put on by REL. Our truck had the same and all REL conversions had those tires

What's even better is if you look on the sidewall you may find the RCAF brand burnt into the sidewall like ours. We believe that our tires have been on our truck since new.


As for fenders, we now have everything to complete the truck including the other gas tank and dog house. I have a picture of the radar trailer and I'll post it later. Thanks to Barry Churcher for helping to find the short shaft from trans to transfer and the wheel cylinder that came from Holland.
Rob

[Bob Carriere]

HI George

Keep your eyes open for the winch..... they are almost indestructible and are the same form 15cwt to the 60....... I would be surprised not to find a few out West.

If you were closer to Ottawa, I would say drive over and see what spares I have....... I know of a few in the Toronto area as well....oh and another still in the chassis just outside of Ottawa.

Bob

[Bob Carriere]

Beautiful job Rob..... do you have the complete box for the truck...?

I am looking for the weirdest part..... it is the little cast part that takes two large bolts to hold the beginning of the winch rope on the winch drum.....

In the absence of a spare part.... does any one have good close up pictures from various angles and some measurements....!!!

Bob

[George McKenzie]

Bob Carriere .I see a picture of the cable holder in the manual . Should be easy to make .I have a lead on a couple of other CMP 60s and will go farther to get a winch .More history on this truck .It was first ownd by a ex air force man E Mahood,his dad logged with MacMillan & Bloedel , who later was a big logger at Lang Bay by Powell River He had a farm by me also and that's where two of these trucks ended up .The local garage owner bought one and I might know where the other one is but it is just a cab and frame now .I'll see if I can locate the box . The fellow that had the garage has a new crated motor that came with the one I got as the original one had a knock in it . Bob Roy ,my tires have the RCAF on them .They are Firestones
The other box is probably on a farm truck now. The rumor is excitment, The searching is the fun,the paying is the pain ,restoring is the work and driving a restored vehicle is the ultimate of all .

[johnnyroad]

There was a long thread dealing with this topic in 2005/06 under the title "Radar Trailer". It was started by Tony Smith Feb. 24, 2005 and in the last post by Terry Hanes (June 22, 2006) he states that these Chevs were "cable trucks" in the Army gun laying radar units. Nothing has turned up to date regarding their use by the RCAF. The Comox truck was stationed there (as Rob mentions it was painted on the driver's door) but when, and for what purpose continues to be a mystery. Did the Air Force ever have portable radar for "gun laying" purposes?

Further information: we're still researching the history of this truck. "The Gunners of Canada" Vol 2 (Nicholson) makes it clear that a Bofors detachment was planned for RCAF Comox the summer of 1943 - the 36th AA Troop of the 30th AA Regiment (headquartered in Port Alberni). Nicholson states it.... "was intended for defence duties at Comox but was never put into action". Given the April 1944 manufacturing date of the truck and its Air Force ownership, it's clear it was never part of a gun-laying radar unit.

And since the liquidation of domestic anti-aircraft defenses commenced early 1944 and the overseas need for light AA diminished after D Day - to the point that some of these units were converted to Infantry - it seems likely that a number of REL contract trucks were deemed surplus to Army needs and turned over to the Air Force as utility trucks.

As our opportunity for original document research here on the Island is essentially zero, we're asking anyone who finds documentary evidence of such a re-allocation (Army to Air Force) to please forward same.

Thanks,
Dave H.

[Comox Air Force Museum]

George. What I'm about to tell you is unbelievable your truck and the museums trucks are sisters.

Your truck went through the conversion right in front of ours. Yours 52 ours 53. Can you imagine that, after all this time.
Here's the truck data plate for David's info.

Thanks Bob for the compliment, Coming from the CMP centre of the universe, it's great to get feedback from the Hammond barn folks. And yes we do have the box, and when we get back to work this fall, at the Skunk Works that will be the number one priority.
Rob

[Comox Air Force Museum]

Bob. I just noticed the one data plate you have. It has the same build date and that truck came down the assembly line just two trucks in front of ours. How complete is that truck, or is it just a data plate.
Rob

[George McKenzie]

Small world Bob isn't that interestig both the Unit # and the Ass'y # are back to back . Mahood must have bought it at Vancouver .I'll have to find the other one to see if it is close to ours .If it is the right one it is in a sawmill and the rest of the parts might still be around there .I wonder how many were made as cable trucks ? Next time we come out your way I'll have to look you up .

[George McKenzie]

I checked out this other CMP60 .It has the cab and front axel with runflat tires on it on 20' rims Here are the numbers
C 60-M-W BRKD-2 C 60 444-M-W
Spareparts 175 Cab 13
Manual MB-01 Chssis 28444219296 Engine PR 3838315 Order LV 148 Date July 16 42 This is not the truck I wanted to see so I will have to keep looking What does BRKD stand for?

[Grant Bowker]

BRKD means it was originally equipped with a twin boom wrecker/tow setup. Manufacturers of the BRKD gear were Holmes and Gar Good. These were mainly on 134" wheelbase (but some on 158") and this matches the data plate (the third 4 in the C60444 is for 134" WB)

[Yeo.NT]

To add more to this thread, I have had pleasure and dreadful chanch to save some parts of a truck that is going to end up on a range. I did try to save the entire truck but was unable. The vehicle at one time did have a winch but looks like it was removed before it was donated.

C-60448-M-W
13
38844333937
PR3971867
PE-197-11
APR-12-44

I will post photos at a later date when I have access to my computer, as I am currently on my cellphone

[lynx42]

A question was asked in post 5 years ago (13-07-11) as to the purpose of this fitting.



The Comox Air Force Museums sister truck has the same fitting on the left front panel.



Can they explain it?

Regards Rick.

[Lynn Eades]

It looks like a slave start set up to me.

[David Dunlop]

What does the fitting look like on the inside of the cowl? From the outside it could either be electrical, pneumatic or hydraulic connectors.

Also curious if any trace of the factory original paint shows up on these vehicles. A number of years back, one showed up in the Ft. Garry area of Winnipeg with an original Lindsey style box. It was the same RCAF Hazard Yellow paint job, but underneath on one door the original wartime green was visible with the wartime RCAF markings on it. I think the yellow paint was a postwar RCAF thing to make this sort of equipment more visible in the air field environment. I think Rob Love may have eventually purchased the Ft. Garry truck.


David

[Yeo.NT]

As promised here is a few pictures

[Yeo.NT]

A few more