still in use commercially....

[things_green]

undoubtedly these vehicles have been covered extensively here....

I have sighted this one a few dozen times as it has moved around the country over the last 30 years....it still gives me a tingle ~chuckles~

[easo]

What is it? What is it used for now?

Easo

[Luke R]

Logging skyline or something like that.
Used for winching logs out of the bush.
Theres still a lot in Canada and USA based on the sherman and high speed tractor chassis.

Luke

[Lynn Eades]

Its a Log hauler. They are parked on a hill and used to harvest logs in steep country. Steam haulers were in use here 100 year ago.
Some of these ( possibly this one ) came in through the port of Tauranga in the late 1990s. It uses a Sherman (Grizzly ) chassis.

[easo]

So its in NZ?

Thanks for the responses to questions.

That would be an interesting thread showing the strange equipment old armour was converted into.
Easo

[things_green]

I know its as a 'skyline tower'...used in the forestry industry for harvesting trees.

I'm no armor expert so initially I assumed it was a Sherman chassis but was told by others more informed than me, that they were made post war by a Canadian company based on (as Lynn said) Canadian Grizzlys.

I have photos, somewhere, going back to the early 1980s of this, or another example.

All I can see is a yet to be Kangaroo.

[chris vickery]

I saw one of these last spring near Terrace British Columbia Canada, still operational, it was based on a Grizzly as well.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

I assume this one was the High Speed Tractor version?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsXzCD0XzU0
Rich.

[maple_leaf_eh]

The term is Spar Yarder. The idea is to drive the chassis as high up the hill as possible. Set the anchor cables and deadfulls. Then rotate and raise the mast. Run a very long overhead cable to somewhere near the bottom and tension it almost straight. There is a cab for the operator who winches logs up the hill to a landing where an loader puts the logs on trucks. The dangerous job is down on the hillside where men in helmets and spikey boots set choker cables and dodge runaways. The Madill company in Nanaimo, BC that did hundreds of conversions. If you search the heavy equipment auctions there are almost always a few on offer.

A second company that use Sherman chassis' for rough terrain use is Finning. Put a big air compresser on one end and a very powerful rock drill hanging off the nose. The companies use these to drill deep holes for blasting hard rock on construction projects.

[tankbarrell]

That yarder is not on a Grizzly chassis, or if it is, all of the features identifying it as such have been changed.

[things_green]

as I stated Adrian, I'm no armor expert......So if its not based on a Grizzley....just a fan of things green....
so what was it?

the original image I snapped while passing on a train....so I went back (what else would one be doing on Christmas Eve?).....and took some better shots.

[tankbarrell]

Brent, almost impossible to say without a close look but the transmission is the late single piece which was not used on Grizzly. The tracks are T47 rubber chevron and these are features generally seen on 'standard' US production vehicles. It could be Sherman based or M7 Priest.

Of course, all those parts are interchangeable as assemblies so it could have started as a Grizzly and the steel CDP track and sprockets could have been changed to rubber for road use but it seems unlikely that the complete transmission assembly would also have been changed.

It could be Sexton based but it has Sherman bogies whereas most Sextons had specific bogies but again they could have been changed.

Because of that, it would need a close examination to determine its origins and that assumes enough original material is left to allow that!

[Luke R]

Just a thought, Could there be a bit of confusion between Madill a Canadian based company that built spar yarders on sherman/HST chassis's and the Grizzly the Canadian built shermans.

Luke

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Luke R

Just a thought, Could there be a bit of confusion between Madill a Canadian based company that built spar yarders on sherman/HST chassis's and the Grizzly the Canadian built shermans.

Luke

Any similarity would be coincidental. From what I've read, the most common donor chassis was the M32 ARV followed by the HVSS postwar Sherman. So much so, the model number is repeated in their conversion model number. I haven't seen anything that suggests country of origin, but there would have been enough surplus vehicles in the fifties and sixties to meet demand. And, from what I can tell, these arrived already demilitarized (saves the freight).

As has been implied, the modular design of the M4 is the key to the success of the Madill spar yarders. The three-sided chassis is tied together on the front with a final drive, with three (or four!) suspension stations per side, and whatever engine the company liked. As far as I can tell, the logging companies didn't want anything old or esoteric. They needed dependable, fixable and cheap fittings. Whether it is the engine to move the yarder around, or the winch drives, these were not nostalgic items. These are hard working tools! Used until the contract or season was done, fixed enough to make the month end, and if the company has to slim down, whatever will sell fast at auction goes out of the yard. Gradually, the heavy duty excavators seem to have taken over as the platform for spar yarders.

[things_green]

thankyou all for taking the time too answer....I am already a few hundred percent up on my Armour 'expertise'

another 1,000% and I may even know something!

Just for my own interest I'll trot along and speak too the owners....see if I can score some close-ups or internal images.

all the best for your greenery in 2013.

Brent

[David Herbert]

Brent,

If you do get a chance of close examination of 'your' yarder, the following would be good to look for:

1) Different models of Shermans had different engines and this caused differences in the rear armour (other end to the sprockets!). A photo of the area between the idlers would eliminate some versions.
2) Similarly the original engines had unique designs of access plates in the floor. As the yarder is stood in your photos you might get a usefull photo of the rear four feet of the underside of the hull.
3) As built the hull had towing eyes at the rear vaguely like the ones on the transmission casting. There was often but not always, a shop no. stamped into one or more towing eyes. Quite often this is rather lightly stamped so you have to scrape the paint off to see it - might not be welcomed!
4) Is there signs of the original emergency escape hatch (approx 2' square) in the floor just behind the transmission to the right of centre. Sextons didn't have this, don't think Priests did either.
5) Is there the remains of the 1/2" thick plate that ran the length of the tank above the tracks and closed the horisontal gap between the lower hull and the side of the upper hull. This was welded to the top edge of the 1 1/2" thick lower hull side and the signs of this should be visible somewhere. If not it may be that the lower hull 'tub' is not actually from a tank at all, but home made with Sherman running gear added.

Us tank nuts need more info !

Happy new year to all

David

[Lynn Eades]

David.You obviously know a lot about tanks, and I don't. Re your last item.(5) To me it makes no economic sense to set out to build a hull using tank running gear.(big expensive job)More likely, the builders would have won the low priced tender for govt surplus tanks, and based on this, built the haulers. (Yarders?) Tank running gear is not really suitable for bush work. Commercial crawler tractors are obviouly far more suited. the compomise is all about price. No doubt, It'll be a tank hull.
These things usually drive/ drag (winch) them selves to the top of the highest hill, and once there, and set up. They dont move again until the whole area is cleared.
I used to work for Owens Services, (It was for many years the only company handling the export of logs from all N.Z. ports) As I recall 3 of them arrived on the Mount Maunganui wharf from a heavy lift ship, and for some reason unknown to me(just lucky?) I had the lovely job of steam cleaning one of them at the Dept. of Agricultures secure cleaning area. This was required before it could be cleared by Ag and fish, and moved from the Port.
BTW thats not getting a few pine needles off the nice orange paint either. That means being in the bowels of it for hours. Hot!, wet!, loud!, and covered in greasy shit! (can I say that?)
This would be about 15 years ago and this machine could well be one of those 3.
I have never seen any of them in action, but I understood that there were already Sherman (used loosely now) based, Log haulers (spar yarders) already in use in Kaiangaroa Forest.
Brent, you could buy it!.... Then you can clean the paint of the tow eye.
I dont think we have a Sherman here although there is a Grizzly in Auckland.

[things_green]

David.....points noted, thankyou.
if the owner is obliging I shall endeavor too tick those 5 boxes.

Lynne; I'm envious....'playing' with one of these beasties!
what a blast......having one, even a chassis would be neat...but realistically I sold my LP2a project because i didn't have the finances and or the ability too finish it...this would be a MUCH BIGGER job.....
neat idea though.....My wife wouldn't mind....but I would have too paint it green pretty rapidly too 'hide' it under a tree

Note; I am not mowing the lawns in preparation for the New Years Eve party...
just where do my priorities lie !!!

Brent

[Lynn Eades]

Hi Brent, I was roughly aware of why the carrier went. Is the Dodge project still happening?
I agree about the tank, but that one would need a lot scrap cut off the top.

[The Bedford Boys]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

I dont think we have a Sherman here although there is a Grizzly in Auckland.

Who's is the Grizzly in Auckland? The National Army Museum in Waiouru has a Grizzly.

[Lynn Eades]

I think it will be the same one.

[things_green]

okay....the owners were very generous....let me loose unsupervised....

I ticked 4 out 5 boxes David.....
Having seen the escape hatch below where the driver would have originally sat I'm pretty sure it was (at one stage) an original hull.


between the idlers....


hole beneath the engine....poor pic I'm afraid.


transmission


front LH (drivers original position).


LH rear idler attachment.


looking from the rear.....escape hatch sorta visible.


inside view of the RH suspension.

cool toy ;-)
Brent.

[tankbarrell]

Oh well, not an original hull, at least not the rear 3/4, just suspension and transmission from a donor vehicle. It's possible they used a front half to make use of the transmission mounting.

[things_green]

poop....c'est la guerre

[David Herbert]

Brent,

Sorry that I wasn't paying attention. Usefull set of photos, thanks I have never seen one of these in detail so I'm learning. As Adrian said, most if not all the hull is home made which I admit suprised me for the reasions Lynn Eades gave above. They must not have needed it to be as heavy as a real one which has sides 1 1/2" thick and the front part of the floor is 1". The real one has sharp lower edges to the sides rather than the rounded ones here and that would be a usefull point to look for. Good source of running gear though...

David

[maple_leaf_eh]

Don't write off the entire class of vehicle as completely "home made", but rather serial factory built examples depending on supply and demand.

From what I've seen, the Madill Company did a lot of adapting to suit their customers. If the logging companies in BC needed a chassis that could climb 10% slopes with a 50' mast and a 30ton winch, that is what the engineering department drew. I have snaps of chassis used for open pit mine drag lines that had 4 suspension stations. Likewise, there are shots of shortened chassis with only 2 stations for increased mobility.

Madill went bankrupt a few years ago, and resurrected as a parts and tech support company owned by someone else. I don't think anyone is making new spar yarders in this economy. Several factors may be at play. The US housing market is really slow, so they aren't buying Canadian logs. Maybe every marketable big log has been cut, which I find hard to believe. Maybe the cut blocks are restrictive enough to use other recovery methods. Or, the economics are right for selective heli-logging. Don't know.

[easo]

So the next generation of spar yarders might hopefully be based on say and M113, M60A3 or C1 Leopard!

Easo

[things_green]

I just returned from a weeks holidaying in Golden Bay (top of the South island) .... cruising a gravel road and ....



so at least 2 Madill yarders survive in New Zealand....

I still think one would make a superb RAM project....but then Im not an armour guy.

[Lew Skelton]

I spotted that one just out of Renwick 3 years ago, bugger as didnt have a camera. Last Christmas it had moved to a yard in the Rai valley( took some photos from the fence with my phone, crap as quality) spotted what looked like it up on a ridge christmas just gone.... No camera again. Lucky you had yours Brent.

[maple_leaf_eh]

http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/...-in-Nanaimo-BC

A whole lot of knowledge on the heavy equipment forums dot com. I keep learning more about Madill every time I scroll through the 107 pages! There are a few NZ spar yarder posters on there too.