SP artilery nicknames

[servicepub (RIP)]

This may be old news to many of the forum readers but I found this information while browsing at the National Archives;
SP Arty nicknames;

Ajax 1 - SP 105mm M7, Mk1 (Priest)
Ajax 2 - SP 105mm M7, Mk2 (Priest)
Achilles 1 - 3-inch M10, Mk1
Achilles 2 - 3-inch M10, Mk2
Achilles 1c - 17-pdr M10, Mk1
Achilles 2c - 17-pdr M10, Mk2
Archer 1 - 17-pdr Valentine Mk1 (SP1)
Avenger 2 - 17-pdr Challenger Mk1 (A30) (SP2)
Alecto - 95mm Harry Hopkins

[Steve Guthrie]

Hello Clive

What's the date on that document?

There is a continuing rumble about the use of the name Achillies to describe the M10 17-pdr.

Some say it was in use during the war, some say it was postwar only.

Steve

[servicepub (RIP)]

Steve,

Definitely WWII but I wrote the information down rather than pay 0.80 cents and wait 3 weeks for delivery of a photocopy.
If pressed I can find it again - I honestly didn't think that the info was all that earth shattering.

Clive

[Steve Guthrie]

Hello Clive

Whenever you get the chance is fine.

It's interesting the Ajax name never caught on and that whoever wrote the list refers to an M7 Priest Mk.1 and Mk.2.

This may refer to manufacturer (ALCO or Federal Machine and Welder) or maybe early production vs late production. Certainly the RCA and the RA referred to them as SP 105mm M7 Priest (nothing)

Curiouser and Cruriouser.

Steve

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Steve Guthrie
What's the date on that document?

There is a continuing rumble about the use of the name Achillies to describe the M10 17-pdr.

Some say it was in use during the war, some say it was postwar only.

Some of the sources I consulted to make a list of British designations for US medium tanks and related AFVs, were incomplete, erroneous and overtaken by later documents. I got the idea some desk jockeys were spending a great deal of time on these designations, independent of the fact if the vehicles were actually used or what they troops referred them to. Many of the names listed here are in the "paper designation" category.

Peter Brown has researched "Achilles" extensively, I have copied his latest message on this subject from the Sherman Register mailing list:

From: "Peter Brown"
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2001 8:25 pm
Subject: More on "Achilles"


I have looked at some documents relating to the M10 series tank destroyers
in the Tank Museum Archives to try and sort out if the name Achilles was
ever officially used in British service.
There are several diagrams showing minor changes, dated February, April and
August 1944. These call the vehicle M.10, either 3" Gun Motor Carriage M.10
or 3" G.M.C. M.10 and they refer to the two turret types as V Section Type
Turret with Balance Wt (weight) or Duck Bill Type Turret.
One set of drawings TD25018B dated 20 August 1944 shows the General
Arrangement Plan Mounting 17 pdr S.P. M.10 Vehicle No 3 Mk I
The Unillustrated Parts List for Ordnance. Q.F. 17pr, Mark V as fitted to
3in Gun Motor Carriage (Chilwell Cat No 62/765 1st Edition July 1944)
suggests that M10 was used for the 17 pounder vehicles. Note that Q.F.
refers to the gun as Quick Firing which means it used a metal cartridge
case, as opposed to a B.L. or Breech Loading weapon which had its propellant
in a cloth bag, both classes of gun loaded through the breech. Many British
Parts Lists were illustrated with line drawings of the items they referred
to.
Then comes a mystery. A sketch plan T.D.25095 dated 10 May 1945 refers to
Achilles Ic & IIc giving Instructions to Guide Fitting of Staples for
Attachment of Camouflage showing where to weld 29 small staples to the hull
sides and front, turret sides and mantlet. This shows a duckbill turret
vehicle with a 3" gun or at least a gun without muzzle brake.
Another drawing with no date is marked Achilles I-C and II-C with
Instructions to guide fittings of Air Exit Protectors which is the curved
shield under the rear hull overhang.
Yet, looking at more post-war documents, the Crew Duty Card (Provisional) of
April 1951, Servicing Schedule of May 1954 and the Crew Duty Card dated
August 1954 all call the vehicle SP 17-pr M10.
So it seems that Achilles was used but M10 was used before and afterwards.
Anyone who can say when the name came in and went out can they please
respond.