C60 cwt Signals CZMk IV

[Gordon Yeo]

Here are some pictures of the truck I bought from Greg Wright. From Bill Gregg's book "Blueprint for Victory" page 121, there is a pictures shown of a truck, Body Design 5J7 - C60 cwt Signals CZMk IV. The van body has the two outward swinging windows on each side, as well as two small outward opening doors on the lower front corners. Which is a description of the van body shown here. Does anyone have any information on this Mk of truck? What it was used for? Interior layouts? etc.
I have another C60 Machinery chassis that has bonding straps between the body panels similar to a wireless truck, and the C60 cwt Signals CZMk IV has none, could this be some tip off as some use other a wireless/radio truck

Gordon

[servicepub (RIP)]

Hi Gordon,

From Drive to Victory -

5J7 - This is a 5J1 body modified to accommodate "Signals' (CZ MK IV)” equipment. A fixed wheelhouse is provided with this body. The inside of the body is sheeted with plywood and insulated with 1-1/2 inches of Thermo Craft paper between inside and outside sheeting of walls and roof. The floor is covered with two coats of Dektred. A Crouse Hinds electrical outlet receptacle for 110v power is installed in the right front panel of the body.

5J1 - This is a Dental House type body of Lindsay construction with two entrance doors at the rear and wheelhouse hinged at one end. When vehicle is being roaded, one end of the wheelhouse is raised and held in place by a rod attached to the ceiling, thus creating necessary wheel clearance. When body is used in its normal role of Dental Office and a flat floor is required, the raised portion of the wheelhouse is lowered till it is flush with the floor. The body is equipped with two Edwards sash type windows on each side, two stationary windows in the front panel and one in each of the rear entrance doors; all provided with necessary blackout curtains. The inside of the body is lined with 3/16" Masonite; the floor is of 10 gauge steel plate with 1/2" Ten-Test cemented or glued to the floor plate and covered with linoleum. Sliding steps are provided for the entrance doors at the rear. Two fan-driven ventilators are installed, one on left side of front panel and the other on right side of rear panel; two static type ventilators are also provided, one on right side of front panel and the other on left side of rear panel. These ventilators are situated in the upper portion of the body, in their respective locations. A supporting frame for camouflage net is installed over the entrance doors. A Crouse Hinds electrical outlet receptacle for 110v power is provided at the bottom of the left rear panel. The following forms part of the equipment in the body:- A 2.5 K.W. Homelite Generator, mounted in the body and anchored to two floor rings when vehicle is in motion; two portable 60 watt electric heaters with built-in fan and switch; two triangular sheet steel water tanks (12 gallon capacity) installed in metal racks, one in each forward corner; a special folding Dental chair and, bolted to each rear panel, two folding seats; an angle iron kit rack across the front end of the body. Two tool boxes are mounted on the body forward of the rear wheels,one on each side. A POW or Jerrican carrier is provided at each front corner, and a one gallon Oil Can carrier is attached to the POW carrier on the right side. A pick and shovel holder is mounted on the front panel, and provision is made for a penthouse assembly. No provision is made for mounting a spare tire.

Clive

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Gord.

When you have a chance have a look under at the wiring loom....... as it goes from the underdash to the frame....driver's side...... check to see if the wiring loom has a metallic woven cover instead of the cloth covered wiring.

We have found the metallic wiring to be either late production ....or possibly as an attempt to shield parasetic charges...... none of the trucks we have seen who had metallic looms had the multitude of ground straps on body parts....

Comments anyone on the metallic looms...... even seen on C15a potential radio trucks..?

Bob

[Bob Carriere]

From other pictures I have seen the inner rear wheel protruding rectangular fenders are solidly mounted which would fit the 5J7....

One heck of a "gin" palace ............... big enough to have dance floor!!!

You could covert the POW cans to G&T........gin and tonic !!!!

Bob

[cletrac (RIP)]

My C8 trucks have a woven metal shield on the wires from the ignition switch to the coil plus all the grounding straps.

[Gordon Yeo]

Clive

Thank you for the confirmation on the van body designation and description. Hopefully you can shed some light on what equipment would be installed in the van body and its designated use as a signals van.

The wheel wells have been permanently fixed in manufacture of the body. It makes one wonder how many of these types of trucks have survived the ravages of 70 years, does any one know of other examples in preservation, or the wilds?

Bob

I'll check the wiring harness for metal braid, this truck is a late 1943 production. The interior floor dimensions of the van body is about 7' X 11' so there is definitely room for gin and tonic bash. I doubt that the truck would ever make it up to one of your famous BBQ get togethers. You'll have to come here when the truck is restored and we can toast it.

Plan A, at this point, is to restore the vehicle to new driving condition. I have stripped out the generators and assessed the ravages of time on the body panels. It will be an interesting project that may take some patience and time. What it should be when complete is a unique vehicle. The odometer reads 6494 miles which, if original, would make one think the springs and axles should be in good condition. The frame and underside of the van body do not show much sign of corrosion, at less that 100 miles per year traveled it may not have been subjected to road salt and winter conditions.

Gordon

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Gordon

I'm looking forward to following the progress of you work.

One comment on the insulation paper check to be sure it is not HIGHLY FLAMMABLE, some of the paper insulation used on trucks of this period burns easily though it may not burn with an open flame it will smolder and catch fire later.

I mention this because discovered by accident when working on my S56 Shelter box that the paper insulation would catch fire and burn. Fortunately I discovered it out side the box when a welding spark landed on a chunk of discarded insulation. I saw it happen stepped on it to put it out but after wards I watched for a little while and it started to burn again. After that I stripped it out of the box bagged it and disposed all of it.

Cheers Phil

[Yeo.NT]

Today I am posting pictures on behalf of my computer Illiterate father. This week removal of interior walls and flammable insulation. The next step is to try and remove one of the corroded panels and see how big of a horror story this will be.

[David Dunlop]

When you get a chance to inspect the wire harness, if you notice what appears to be a cloth loom covering, take a close look at it. I used to own a Chev 15-cwt Wireless, built in June 1944, which turned out to have been a vehicle that had served overseas and ended up coming back to Canada after the war for whatever reason. When I bought the truck, I noticed the left headlamp had a distinct yellowish look to it, whereas the right side was a bright white. The markings on it were the typical xx-xxx CFR Number and the round orange circle with the black capital P in it.

After sitting in the back yard for the first winter, I was shocked in the spring to notice a white star and segmented circle appearing through the paint on the drivers side roof and overseas TAC and Formation signs on the front cowl.

Then, when stripping the wiring out of it, the first thing I noticed was all the wire clad loom and grounding straps connecting everything, everywhere. When I got to the headlight assemblies, more pieces of the overseas puzzle came together. The driver's side headlamp was a newer assembly than the left side. It had a cloth loom and was the only such piece of wiring harness on the entire vehicle. I thought that was really odd considering the intent of the wiring loom was to reduce electrical noise as much as possible. When I took this headlamp assembly out of the vehicle, I discovered that underneath the cloth loom, was a full wire loom covering.

The Chev Master Parts List shows a series of wiring components replacing one another over time. I think that early war production used two unique wiring harnesses: a standard cloth system for all vehicles not carrying wireless equipment and a second wire loom system to be used in all vehicles equipped with wireless. It may have become easier at some point to produce just one, universal wiring harness capable of being installed in any vehicle.

Good luck with the project.

David

[Gordon Yeo]

Bob and David

I took a close look at the wiring harness today, looking for metal shielding. There is no engine in the truck so I am guessing at the connecting points of the wires I looked at. I found two shielded wires, one would go on the generator and the other, as Bob suggested, went from the dash down to the frame below the drivers seat. Possibly connects to the starter as a feed for the power source. These appear to be the only shielded wires in the wiring harness.

Phil

Thank you for the heads up on the insulation, I certainly don't want to end this story prematurely. As I removed the paper insulation it went into the shop furnace, it burnt with a lovely bluish flame.

Thanks to Neil for posting the pictures, nothing too startling, just to show something is happening here.

Gord

[Gordon Yeo]

I have had some time to start taking the corroded panels off the van. The first two pictures show the interior and exterior of the front right side, that have been removed. The rear three panels are good and will be kept.

Picture three shows the panels across the rear and the doors have all so been removed. Fortunately the curved panels on the rear corners are in good enough condition to have the dents hammered out and reused.

Picture four shows the channel irons that hold the panels in place, they can be nasty to get out. It also shows the amount of rust behind the panels, far less than I had imagined to be there.

[Gordon Yeo]

A bit more progress on cleaning up the van body. All the panels, I can access, have been removed and the frame work cleaned up and painted. The underside has been buffed clean with a wire wheel in the right angle grinder and painted. The odometer shows 6494 miles and from the absence of corrosion on the underside of the van body I don't think this truck has seen road salt.

I found the manufacturers plate on the rear lower left side of the van body, Chrysler Serial -No 5-J-7 009. Looks like what I thought it would be and a very low production model.

I am bending up new replacement panels and one window assembly was in very poor condition and needs to be rebuilt.

Both front curved corner panels were damaged and I replaced the lower sections using 3M Body Panel Adhesive. I like to use it as it doesn't heat distort like welding or brazing and seals the joint against further corrosion.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Gordon

Your body work is looking like that when you are done you will have a restoration as close to as manufactured as can be.

Looking really really good.

Cheers Phil

[Mike Cecil]

Gordon

I'm late to this thread, so forgive me if some of this is already evident or has already been passed on to you.

"5J7 body is constructed to drawing schedule 1102576."

'The is a 5J1 body modified to accommodate Signals (CZMkIV) equipment. A fixed wheelhouse is provided with this body. The inside of the body is sheeted with plywood and insulated with 1 1/2 inches of Thermo Craft paper between the inside and outside sheeting of walls and roof. The floor is covered with two coats of Dektred. A Crouse Hinds electrical outlet receptacle for 110 Volt power is installed in the right front panel of the body.'

'Signals CZ Mk.IV':

'The Lorry is equipped with an all steel 12 ft Lindsay House type body, with entrance doors at the rear. The body is fitted with clear plastic windows having two in each of the upper side panels and one in each of the rear doors. The two upper panels on each side of the body are hinged at the top and have locking handles on the outside allowing them to open. Two hinged screen doors are fitted on the inside of the rear entrance and open inward. Copper mesh screens fitted on each side window. Two 60 cycle 110 volt A.C. puller type ventilating fans with screen assemblies are used to ventilate the body through a fibre glass filter. A small door at the front on each side of the body provides an opening for the fans. A 110 volt A.C. overhead lighting system is supplied. Power is obtained from an outside source from a 3" opening located in the right side of the body at the front. A tool box is underslung on the right hand side of the body while a P.O.W. carrier is underslung on the left hand side."

The above are quoted from official CDN DND publications.

I'm guessing, but the CDN WS No.52, a general purpose Brigade/Division set for use as either vehicle or ground station, would seem to be a good candidate for this vehicle. 'Wireless for the Warrior' provides a good coverage of the vehicle installations. Another option is the No.19 set, which is also well covered in WFTW Volume 2.

Mike C

[Gordon Yeo]

Mike

Your being late to the thread isn't a problem, your input is very much appreciated. What you have given me for information is more than I have gotten so far, all I had found was the 5-J-7 signals van configuration. I would be very interested in any information or pictures you might have about the truck. From your information I believe the original lighting system and puller fans were still in place.

Phil

I certainly wont be doing a Bob Carrier restoration on the truck, but will try and get reasonably close to original appearance. Originally the interior was clad with good one side fir ply wood. The best we can get now, with out special order, is better one side. The plan is to re-insulate with dense foam board and clad it with 1/4" mahogany underlay. When painted the mahogany will look close enough to original to be acceptable, at 2/3 the cost.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Gordon

I used two layers of 1/8 mahogany luan plywood which was actually fairly cheap, when I was rebuilding my S56 Radio Box. Used two layers of the thin 1/8 instead of 1/4 inch because the 1/8 would bend to the curves of the roof inside and out while I could not get the 1/4 plywood to bend that sharp without breaking. Little glue between the layers and it has been in the box on the truck since 1992.

Did a little searching on the internet seems to relatively common, even in marine grade. Marine grade I found for 4'x4' or 2'x8' sheets 1/8 thick was $28. Found some none marine grade 4'x8'x1/8" for around $15 per sheet.

When I went looking the local lumber yard had it in stock in 4x8 sheets it is used in cabinet work for the bottom of drawers.

I went the same way and used rigid foam re-insulate.

Cheers Phil

[Gordon Yeo]

I have all the new panels made, but not all of them are painted yet. I tried test fitting one side to see how well things went together. The window assemblies need to be completed and mounted before the channel irons can be put in place.

[Bob Carriere]

....converting it into a Chip/fries truck..... now is the time before you do the inside.

Very nice job..... Glad you rescued that beast and doing it justice.....

Bob

[Gordon Yeo]

Well Bob, I guess I'll play along, you think it should be a chip truck? I know where there are two deep friers and the truck was originally wired for 110 volts. With those big window panels, for ventilation, it should make a good conversion!

You refer to the truck as 'that beast", my nephew called it a pachyderm. Would Jumbo be an appropriate name to put on the hood.


Gord

[Bob Carriere]

....but I am partial to Walt Disney's .......DUMBO !!!!!!

Cheers

Bob C

[Gordon Yeo]

Looks like I'm going to get side tracked from the truck for a while and am posting a few pictures of where things are at.Here are a few before and after pictures

[Gordon Yeo]

The pictures taken inside are not the best, but will have to do for now. August looks like I'll be busy and wont get much done.

[Yeo.NT]

Looking good dad

[Ganmain Tony]

Very nice job Gordon - look forward to more progress photos.

Have you got any of the interior of the back?

[Gordon Yeo]

As requested a few photo's of the interior.

[Bob Carriere]

.... who is your cleaning lady ?????

Are the crops good this year...? enough to finance further repairs...?

Bob

[Gordon Yeo]

Bob

A very different year than last. We had more rain yesterday and last night than all of July last year. Crops are fantastic and the prices for commodities are tanking, the fun money wont be as plentiful as last year.

How is the tractor project coming along?

Gord

[Bob Carriere]

Well we did get the first one, the WC running just fine, it is not a healthy engine in my opinion with one valve so loose in the valve guide it doing the rock and roll.....but it runs fine, sheet metal painted the AC flaming Orange.

The second one is a more complex issue. Had to buy a replacement valve rocker assembly which is now installed. We then found out that most of the adjustment on the individual rockers were getting past the thread. So instead of having the adjustment nut above the valve rocker we had to instal them below the rocker arm. That meant shaving off the corners of all the nuts on the lathe using a file so that they would turn without binding on the lower part of the rocker arm.....so far so good. I am cannibalizing parts form two other tractors.... seats.... floor panel.... man is the sheet metal ever thick on these...about 14 guage.

Grant did miracles fixing up the steering tube... using the only one that was not in two piece he spent a day taking the bends out of the tube with the hydraulic press.... he made some wooden saddle blocks to get the pressure at the right spot..... used an old torsion bar as an insert to remove the dings and I now have a very functional solid and straigth tube. We also rebuilt the steering box using bits and pieces from the other tractors. I now have to weld the vertical steel pipe/ steering support of the tube into the cast iron body of the torque tube....plans are to heat up the cast iron to a pale cherry and go at it with the Mig. Got a new exhaust manifold, generic small tractor muffler, new oil pressure gauge, new temp gauge, rubber boot for the shifter, swapped the best oil pump from the other tractor and using my recently acquire CMP engine crank turned the engine enough to get oil into the filter. Found out the inverted oil filter was near full when I removed it to instal the spark plugs into cyl. # 4. A bit of magic Gibbs oil and Grant had the original louvers/shutters in front of the rad working again.... no thermostat on this model.

Two major isssue remains..... now that I will be installing the proper steering linkage the old alternator will not fit.... I am on the hunt for a small Oriental 12 volt alternator from a rice burner. The next is one rear tire has a slow leak..... hoping it is only the valve which I will pick up tomorrow. The recent AC model CA I purchased has freshly redone sheet metal so will cannibalize that as well. We found a spare seat.... cast iron.... will not be original but will be real cool when installed.... real deep dish all scalloped.....

In the spare time I have been painting the cab 11 pieces with POR, then self hetching primer now ready for the OD green.... and shooting Allis Chalmers Orange on the tractor parts.

I am using Volvo rims on the front end but will migrate to the proper AC 16 rims when I can scrape the $$$$.... need to hear it run first.

Life is real hard when you are retired....so tomorrow we are off to the coast of Maine for the Lobster festival in Rockport back late next week.

Bob C.

[Gordon Yeo]

Bob

And here I was concerned, you would be so traumatized by retirement, with nothing too do, you would be crying in the bathroom in the mornings. Seems I needn't have worried.

Gord

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Gord

Took me a while to get use to the idea but I have been steadfast to my plans.

Was called twice by my old department to go back for a few months and turned it down. Having lunch, free I hope, on Aug 13th to listent to another sales pitch for Sept. to December....will wait until the lunch tab is paid before turning it down. I made the mistake of last Winter of relisting with Temp Help Agencies as I did not want to stop working at that point.... I keep getting emails..... there are mega opportunities for 6,8 and 12 months contracts in Human Resources and with all the anticipated labour relations issues comming up with bargaining in 2014 you can literatly pick which part of the city and what side of the street you can work on.... being fluently bilingual helps.

I have done my part it's time for me to enjoy what is left of this wonderful life. I don't have the $$$ I use to have but then I am not supporting our dear government with my crazy income tax dollars.

Must go finish my packing for the coast.

Bob C.