RCAMC stretcher jeep markings (need help!)

[derk derin]

Hi All,
I am in the process of painting the markings on my stretcher jeep restoration project that I have modeled after a wartime photo I have admired for years now but the only description with the photo is taken in Vaucelles,France 20 July,1944 and would like to know what the unit & formation signs would have been on it.I have found a photo of a stretcher jeep with the WD number CM4233497 close to the CM4233488 that will be on my jeep but it belongs to the unit 76 (black background) and seems to have been serving in Italy.Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,Derk.

[servicepub (RIP)]

The ambulances were operated by the Field Hospitals/Casualty Clearance centres. Look up the one that was attached to the 7th Inf Bde of the 3rd Cdn Inf Div.

[derk derin]

Hi Clive,
Thanks for the starting point for my search.So far I have found out that the RCAMC field ambulances serving with the 3rd Can.Inf. Div were;

7th Canadian infantry brigade
75(black background) 14 field ambulance RCAMC (Moncton,N.B.)
8th Canadian infantry brigade
76(black background) 22 field ambulance RCAMC (Halifax,N.S.)
9th Canadian infantry brigade
77(black background) 23 field ambulance RCAMC (Petawawa,Ont.)
In searching invasion maps for the 3rd Division I noticed that the 7th Canadian infantry brigade were heading in the direction of Vaucelles.Can I assume from this that it would be a stretcher jeep of the 75 field ambulance or is there a more conclusive search I can try to find out the unit?
The formation sign will be french grey with a yellow leaf?
I would also like to find the type of stencilling font for the W.D. numbers on the hood CM4233488.Would these be 3 inch numbers?Any idea where I could find them?An internet search found a few close matches but nothing like the jeep has.
Thanks,Derk.

[servicepub (RIP)]

The stencil used is not typical of the type generally used. Further, Routine Orders (don't know the number) stated that the 'bars' created by the stencils were to be painted over - although this was often ignored.

C

[derk derin]

Clive,
I did read somewhere that the stencil spaces were to be filled in to form a solid number/letter.
I solved my stencil problem,turns out there are all kinds of stencil fonts in my computer under Microsoft office word.I can just pick the size & style of font,print them on paper,cut them out and then paint them on the vehicle.Of the many choices of fonts in my computer to chose from,the closest style is called ''STENCIL''.My research shows the letters/numbers for the W.D. numbers to be 3 1/2 inches high.

One problem I cannot figure out is on the front fender I can see 2 sets of 3 digit stenciling but to zoom in only distorts the image so I can't tell for sure what is marked there.I know the tire pressures are usually in these spots above the wheel wells and assume that is what they are but researching the tire pressures for WWII "Commonwealth" jeeps,they did not use the standard "American" TP but were supposed to be marked:
RS 30 (road surface) or CC28 (cross country).
The photo shows 2 sets of stenciling so this option doesn't seem likely,the only other option I can think of what is stencilled is;
R 30 and F 30.
Can anybody help me figure out what is correct here.Maybe somebody has access to a higher resolution photo of this jeep and can blow up the picture to see what is there.I couldn't find many jeep photo's in service with tire pressures stencilled on them at all so can't find a common pattern to go by.
Thanks for any help you can give.
Regards,Derk.

[Eric B]

Hello Derk

Not all stretcher jeeps belonged to the RCAMC.

Most belonged to an infantry unit and were used to transport ammo to the front and wounded back as needed. There were orders stating such and the trailers were used to bring up the ammo.

WD Numbers were not consecutive. Unfortunetly i have no info on the WD number you wish to use. Is its use relevent to your vehicle?

Not all WD were filled in.

In the photo there is a smal 76 painted on the edge of the passenger fender by the grill. The other numbers could be tire pressure.

Again there are orders stating the tire pressure would be inside the cab visible to the driver if not indicated on the data plate.

Regardless of orders, there are variants. As long as there is a photo to back up your research pretty much anything goes.

There are also aprox 5-6 different variants of the ambulance jeep as well. Two styles alone for the bunk bed version.

Thanks
Eric

[derk derin]

Hi Eric,
I have seen photo's of stretcher jeeps pulling trailers and wondering why they would have trailers.Now I know.That's interesting that all stretcher jeeps weren't RCAMC.
My jeep is being done exactly to a wartime photo of a RCAMC stretcher jeep taken at Vaucelles,France July 20,1944.I know for sure the W.D. number CM4233488,that it belongs to the 7th infantry brigade,3rd Canadian infantry division(thanks to Clive)And after looking at many photo's of the jeep,I have a clear picture on my wall that with a magnifying glass,shows the front fender stencilling to be;
B28 and F28.The only thing I was unsure of was what unit of the RCAMC the jeep belonged to.I have painted the unit sign to the 75,14 field ambulance RCAMC.If at a later date I find information that it was one of the other 2 units then it will be easy to repaint a new unit number in the black rectangle background.The restoration is going better this week.Last week was a disaster when everything I touched went wrong,breaking my spirit and walking away from it for a few days! I am hoping to get it done by this fall but won't push it! Thanks for the help and will post progress pictures soon.
Regards,Derk.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Found this picture on the web some time ago. Sadly I can't remember where it came from....nor if it helps in your search.
I also remember there is a number of (staged) pics of an Ambulance jeep in Normandy(?). Really don't know if they show the same jeep or unit, but will try to find them.

Alex

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally Posted by derk derin

Re: B28 and F28.

Eric suggested that tire pressure markings may be present and I wonder if these are Front and Back?
Clive

I question the point Eric raised about ambulances belonging to Infantry units? I also wonder about the statement that (red cross marked) ambulances would bring ammunition to the front?
I don't know for sure but it doesn't seem correct. If Mark Tonner checks in he could probably advise on the War Establishment to how if an Inf Bn had Ambulances.

Clive

[derk derin]

Hi Alex,
Great picture of the stretcher jeep! This is the first photo I have seen where it shows the left side of a jeep ambulance.I did come across a photo of 2 wounded Canadian soldiers sitting in the back of a stretcher jeep and this answered a question I had about the position of where the red cross was painted on the left side of a jeep ambulance.The shovel & axe were in the way of placing it in the same position as on the right hand side,just in front of the rear wheel well but the photo with the wounded soldiers shows the red cross painted behind the left wheel well along the top and now your photo confirms for me that is the correct spot.I also noticed in your photo that the 2 ammo boxes bolted to the front fenders have the unit & formation signs painted on the front of the boxes.The right box has the 75 painted on the front of it and on the left box has the formation sign on the front.It also has a red cross painted on the windshield canvas cover.Something different than the rest of the stretcher jeeps is the blackout light in the right headlight and the bridge plate covering the left headlight hole.Interesting!Thanks for sharing the photo.
Clive,
I thought the same thing for the tire pressures,although not standard markings.I do remember seeing a photo somewhere of a jeep with wounded towing a trailer but was some time ago.I would like to find it again cause it has me curious as to what unit it belonged to.

[derk derin]

Clive,
I just found 3 photo's of a jeep belonging to the Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa carrying a wounded soldier on a stretcher.The jeep has no red crosses on it and the 3rd photo shows 2 soldiers behind the jeep.Can you tell if they are sitting on the back of a trailer?I don't see another vehicle behind or are they just standing behind the jeep?What do you think?All 3 photo's don't have a clear shot behind the jeep.
Derk.

[Lynn Eades]

Dirk, the black out light and bridging disc over the headlight is the British spec on the Jeep.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by derk derin

Clive,
I just found 3 photo's of a jeep belonging to the Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa carrying a wounded soldier on a stretcher.The jeep has no red crosses on it and the 3rd photo shows 2 soldiers behind the jeep.Can you tell if they are sitting on the back of a trailer?I don't see another vehicle behind or are they just standing behind the jeep?What do you think?All 3 photo's don't have a clear shot behind the jeep.
Derk.

Looks to me like they are just standing in the background. If you blow the photo up you can see one guy's pant leg.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hi Alex,
Great picture of the stretcher jeep!

No problem Derk. I will see if any have any more pics of Ambulance jeeps that might give some extra info.

I just found 3 photo's of a jeep belonging to the Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa carrying a wounded soldier on a stretcher.

Those are the pics I was referring to!

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Derk,
Some pictures of Ambulance jeeps in Zwolle 14-04-1945
Source: "Historisch Centrum Overijssel"

Alex

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally Posted by derk derin

Clive,
I just found 3 photo's of a jeep belonging to the Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa carrying a wounded soldier on a stretcher.The jeep has no red crosses on it and the 3rd photo shows 2 soldiers behind the jeep.Can you tell if they are sitting on the back of a trailer?I don't see another vehicle behind or are they just standing behind the jeep?What do you think?All 3 photo's don't have a clear shot behind the jeep.
Derk.

This photo convinces me that Infantry units had ambulances on their WE as the unit Serial shown (733/1) is that of the Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Source: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/index-e.html

[Eric B]

Hello

I have copies of orders (1944) indicating that all of the drain holes of Car 5cwt 4x4 were to have the drain holes enlarged so that they would be able to accomodate the later two tier style stretcher rack. This could be installed without any other modifications to the jeep.

Generally the bandsmen in the Regiments performed medic and stretcher bearer roles.

Most of these jeeps did not have the red cross painted on them, but had flags on them when needed.

Those used exclusively as ambulance jeeps had the crosses painted.

Based on the photo you are using, this would be a RCAC unit as Clive indicated.

R (rear) and F (front) makes sence for the tire pressure.

In your jeep photo.

The Canadians also used the bridge plate and black out light.

The edges of the front bumper are painted white.

This is not a CDN contract jeep, but could be one bought used or on a non CDN specific contract.

It has the later style stretcher bracket, which clips into the door strap hooks and drain holes in the front, and clamps onto the rear panel. It sits inside the body width opposed to the earlier style which sits on the outside on brackets.

On the earlier style they also relocated the spare tire to the drivers side.

Eric

[chrisgrove]

British practice was usually just to put (eg) TP 30 above the wheel to which the pressure related. No need for F or R as it's obvious!
Chris

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Cleaning up my mailbox, I found this picture of a restored Canadian ambulance jeep, IIRC it belongs to Erik Nijenhuis: