Australian CMP spare tyre carrier

[Ken Smith]

Good day fellas,

Can anyone tell me what the difference between a 16" tyre carrier and a 20" tyre carrier is please? I mean apart from the fact one holds a 16" and 1 holds a 20" tyre, I have the remains of a couple with differences,and I don't want to put all the effort into rebuilding the wrong one for my C60L.

I am talking about the Australian type with the tyre on one side and the toolbox with POW cans on top on the other side.

Cheers Ken

[hrpearce]

Hi Ken, this is a 16" carrier and so far I have only seen the hinged locking tab on 16" carriers.
Second picture is a 20".

[Ken Smith]

Thanks Robert, that one has small differences to the 3 I have, which are all slightly different to each other. I have never really studied them until now, I had always assumed the tyre carriers were built by Ford or Holden but maybe they were outsourced which allowed little differences to creep in. I haven't even started looking at the differences in toolboxes yet.

I will check and see whether I have any tyre carriers with the hinged locking tab.

On the bright side it looks like there is no right or wrong one, so long as it will take a 20" wheel.

Which brings me to another question I have wanted to ask for a while, is there an Australian parts book that shows the Australian parts for Australian bodies, cabs, modifications and accessories?

Ken

[Ken Smith]

Robert your second photo shows the retaining piece with the screw in he top has an angle bent in the downbars, whereas in the first photo the downbars seem to be straight.

If the photos are of the same carrier then it must be an optical illusion.

Ken

[Darrin Wright]

I have seen the tyre carriers for 16" tyres have a shorter locking arm and the tyre carriers for a 20" have a longer locking arm. Both pivot.

Also earlier tyre carriers have a ladder under the main frame of the assembly, later they discontinued this feature, possibly due to steel shortages or to save steel.

In day light I can take some pics of wheel carrier on my Chev if that helps. It is 1944 or 45, fitted with 20" wheels.

[hrpearce]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Robert your second photo shows the retaining piece with the screw in he top has an angle bent in the downbars, whereas in the first photo the downbars seem to be straight.

If the photos are of the same carrier then it must be an optical illusion.

Ken

Ken the first is 16" the second is 20" and it does have a bend and an extra angled bit welded near the hinge that locates it's down position.

[Ken Smith]

Good day Darrin,

Photo would be good thanks, this is really interesting there are a lot more differences than I thought.

It is funny I have sold 2 mint tyre carrier and tool box setups over the last 30 years, thinking I would never need one, just goes to show. I don't know if they were 16" or 20" though.

The bit about the ladder is good as I saved a ladder out of one of the setups I sold, and I have never seen another ladder since.

My truck is a 1945 Canadian cab 13, with round roof hatch, when the farmer got it from the dealer in 1956 it was fitted with an Australian army drop side wooden body, the whole truck was painted deep bronze green. It had 26,000 miles on it and it now has 36,000 miles on it. The farmer can't remember a spare tyre carrier on the truck, but they put a steel tipping body on the blitz in 1958 and dumped the beautiful wooden body.
Ken

[Ken Smith]

Robert, that is good, of course it looks like I will have to bend a down bar as someone has cut one side off to repair something else. I was hoping the 20" would be the straight one, somebody has cut one side off it as well but it would be easier to replicate.

Ken

[Mike Cecil]

Darrin (and Ken),

"Also earlier tyre carriers have a ladder under the main frame of the assembly, later they discontinued this feature, possibly due to steel shortages or to save steel"

Actually, it was the other way around: the 'Ladder, Tyre (Aust)' was introduced on all Aust production CMPs with 20 inch wheels and the tyre/tool box arrangement from late 1943, with the proviso that there would be no program to upgrade vehicles already in service with the new ladder. The ladder stowed under the spare tyre/tool box mount in two angle iron members welded lengthwise along the lower edge of the frame. The ladder was held in position by a locking pin on a chain.

The idea was a single man could deploy or stow the tyre without assistance, by walking it up the ladder, then use the top rung to stand on while clamping the tyre in place. Having tried lifting a 20 inch wheel assembly into the spare tyre rack on my own (I was young and silly!), I can vouch for how sensible a design change it was.

Mike

[Darrin Wright]

I have some detailed pics of the tyre carrier from my C60L, ARN 89 134, sold off on 24 Apr 1963 from 3 BOD.
I believe this tyre carrier to be original to this truck.
Unfortunately someone had taken the truck ID plates, but it is a Sydney assembled truck in late 44 or 45.
Truck now has 15000 miles original to it ( I have added approx. 1000 miles in 20 years).
No ladder on this tyre carrier.
Fitted with 20" wheels.
The locking arm has a bend in it

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by hrpearce

Hi Ken, this is a 16" carrier and so far I have only seen the hinged locking tab on 16" carriers.
Second picture is a 20".

Gee Robert, those bits look familiar. How far have you got with them?
Regards Rick

[hrpearce]

Hi Rick besides getting the threads moving and the old rusted bolt heads out I have only given it a basic clean to identify where repairs are needed.

[Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Darrin Wright

I have some detailed pics of the tyre carrier from my C60L, ARN 89 134, sold off on 24 Apr 1963 from 3 BOD.
I believe this tyre carrier to be original to this truck.
Unfortunately someone had taken the truck ID plates, but it is a Sydney assembled truck in late 44 or 45.
Truck now has 15000 miles original to it ( I have added approx. 1000 miles in 20 years).
No ladder on this tyre carrier.
Fitted with 20" wheels.
The locking arm has a bend in it

Thanks Darrin,


Good photos, and helpful. That looks like a nice truck. Does it have a round roof hatch?

I wish mine had been demobbed with a steel body, the farmer wouldn't sell the truck to me unless I promised to restore it with a wooden body, like it had when his family bought it. I have already waited 30 odd years to get it.

I had even bought a perfect late GMH body to put on it.

Ken

[Ken Smith]

Good day Fellas,

I would like to thank everyone who has helped sort out this problem, and the amount of effort that has gone into it, it is very much appreciated.

I have certainly learnt a lot.

Ken

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Darrin,

89134 - Truck, 3 ton, Stores (Unbinned), Chevrolet C60L, chassis number 38443S61287. Taken on charge in NSW. I see it had an engine change over as late as 1960.

I'm curious to learn what led you to conclude that your truck is a 'late 44 early 45' build, as I know you do research into the history of your vehicles. Two reasons I ask: firstly, the delivery year for your truck, and indeed the entire group of ARNs it falls into, is listed as 1943. Secondly, the prefix '3' on the chassis number indicates a 1943 build, according to the Dept of Defence Identification document, page 10, Chevrolet War Dept : 'The first digit represents the last figure of year of manufacture'.

In any event, the MGO Equipment Memorandum for December 1943 is quite specific regarding the introduction of the 'Ladder, Tyre (Aust)'. Like everything, though, things are not rigid: there may be any number of reasons why an individual vehicle at the time of its disposal had the earlier style carrier: using up excess stock at time of manufacture, changeover during service, etc etc.

Mike

[Darrin Wright]

Well I do like to learn and be challenged on such things.

This was my first restoration (yes some people like to start off small and step up to bigger things, I came across this and the price was good, condition was very good so couldn't pass it up).

I did not have the information, or access to the info, when I commenced this restoration in 1991, so it was info learned and picked up as I went and from other vehicles and people. Since then I have other vehicles and the research bug has kicked in some more and I have not come back to this truck. However, approx. 2012 I visited the AWM and looked through the records and took many pics for this truck and BGC info.

The chassis number is 38443.....the first prefix is for the year and the next 4 are for the chassis model identification.

When I bought the truck it was registered as a 1944 model.

It is fitted with 44 Armour Glass.

Yes the truck had an engine change/rebuild, as when I stripped the engine down the mileage was painted on the left side of the engine block (what was readable). What you have told me now makes sense to me with the AWM126 records for that ARN and the engine swap was done in 1960 (not sure what the other numbers mean- code for engine/location???)

3 BOD I believe is Seymour area, this is where it was disposed of.

I have found another truck that has similar manufacturing details and changes to mine, it had its data plates in it and it was a (from memory) 44 or 45 model.
So, with limited info I presumed part of it's history. I know, presumption is bad...I have learned that in my job in the ADF.

When sold off, it went to the Urana Shire as a fire truck, then it sat around as a back up unit, was sold off by the shire in a town clean up and bought by a truck wreckers in Wodonga. This is where I came in and bought it, in 1991.

It had just over 14000 miles on it at the time, painted red, missing the tail gate and had some other fire truck features.

It has been a great learning experience.

[Mike Cecil]

That's the good thing about a forum like this: discussion leading to better conclusions.

(not sure what the other numbers mean- code for engine/location???) - the numbers/letters are the authority for the changeover to occur (the authority also is used for the engine to be demanded by the workshop from the RAAOC store, and so on. As you'd know, the workshop just can't front the storeman and say 'give us an engine, mate' - he'd be asked 'on what authority?' as it has to be accounted for).

3 BOD I believe is Seymour area, this is where it was disposed of.- 3BOD was located at Broadmeadows but they operated an detachment at Seymour. Many auctions were done from Seymour, so it is likely it was sold through 'Det 3BOD'.

"The chassis number is 38443.....the first prefix is for the year and the next 4 are for the chassis model identification." - yes, that is correct. The '3' prefix is 1943; and 8443 translates to: 8= Canada sourced; 4 = 4 wheels; 4 = four wheels driven and '3' = third design model which was 158 inch WB. ie a 4x4 C60L.

So do I deduce you purchased it from 'North Eastern Motor Wrobbers' in Wodonga?? THAT would have cost you!

Nice if you could find the fixed hood bows and wire mesh sides for the rear body. I don't know of anyone with a restored Stores (Unbinned) model truck, so it would be quite unique.

Mike