Chevrolet Truck 'Lend Lease' etc

[mlombard]

Hi

Ok I'll admit I am now one slightly confused individual, I'm trying to sort out the model designations on the 1940's Chevrolet trucks, not not the CMP 'Blitz's, the ordinary ones.

The two documents I have in front of me, one entitled:

Chevrolet and GMC Truck Parts Catalogue 1941-1955 talks of series 11 to 18 and 91 to 98

and the other

D.M.E. Technical Instruction M.V. Maintenance,, Instruction no. C.10-14,, dated August 1943 states Standard Conventional Pattern Vehicles, Chevrolet and GMC states Models 1300 to 1600 and Models 9300 to 9600

So this makes some sense to me, in militarising these vehicles they added two zeros to the model specification.

However this then starts to get confusing when I look at this webpage (see http://www.trucksplanet.com/catalog/model.php?id=1131 ).

It seems however also that the model/series numbers carried on each year,, but that each year the alphabet prefix would change.

Am I right.

Matt

[Lionelgee]

G'day Matt,

Probably easiest if you visit a specialist old Chevy mob - http://stovebolt.com

They have specialist technical sections, Accessed November 18, 2016 from http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/#ID and lots of other Old Chevrolet information and goodies there.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[mlombard]

Hi Lionel

Thanks very much for this a very interesting website.

So the Lend Lease Chev's are MR and MS model Chevrolet trucks i.e. 1942 models.

Are the military 3 ton trucks uprated to a 3 ton specification by the addition of heavier spring sets at the rear.

Regards

Matt

[mlombard]

Hi again Lionel

I've been trawling around the MLU site and following some of your earlier posts, so your vehicle is designated as a MCP or Modified Conventional Patten, is this the military designation of this model, further to this yours is a 1940 i.e what I'd call a wrap around grill where as the one I am looking at has what I believe to be called a waterfall grill, yours has dual rears where as this truck has singles (split rim type). So did the military not have a way of designating the lend lease Chev by different model but only by it being civilian or modified. in other word they didn't use the Chev designations by model, but only by size i.e. 1300 versus say 9300 series.

Regards

Matt

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by mlombard

Hi again Lionel

I've been trawling around the MLU site and following some of your earlier posts, so your vehicle is designated as a MCP or Modified Conventional Patten, is this the military designation of this model, further to this yours is a 1940 i.e what I'd call a wrap around grill where as the one I am looking at has what I believe to be called a waterfall grill, yours has dual rears where as this truck has singles (split rim type). So did the military not have a way of designating the lend lease Chev by different model but only by it being civilian or modified. in other word they didn't use the Chev designations by model, but only by size i.e. 1300 versus say 9300 series.

Regards

Matt

Hello Matt,

To risk the wrath of more informed members my understanding is the military - possibly Australian formed MCP Modified Civilian Pattern to distinguish them from Canadian Military Pattern vehicles (CMPs).

My grille was only a two year run 1939 and 1940. It is just a rectangle shape made up of horizontal bars. Whereas the 1941 had the big chrome "smile" that was a combination of vertical and horizontal bars.

My truck has dual rear wheels however it is only a single speed differential.

Other members more knowledgeable than me can fill out the model designation details regarding Lend Lease and Australian assembled. The Australian War Memorial does include Chevrolet (Holden) in some of their photographs' captions.

The other point of complication is the inclusion of more heavy duty GMC and Maple Leaf General Motors stable mates.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by mlombard

Hi again Lionel

Where as the one I am looking at has what I believe to be called a waterfall grill, yours has dual rears where as this truck has singles (split rim type).

Regards

Matt

G'day Matt,

When you write "looking at" does it mean walking towards your own truck that you can then 'look at" it in real life? Or are you "looking at" buying one of your own? Or are you "looking at" a picture of one? Maybe just "looking at" out of historic interest? Or are you "looking at" a scale model of one?

If it is the first scenario could you post up some pictures of it?

Kind Regards
Lionel

[cliff]

MCP vehicles were civilian models which were modified slightly with an observation hatch in the cab roof plus a MG gallows pole plus cut out front mudguards so the fitting of the oversize 18in combat rims and tyres had clearance. Most Chevrolet MCP's had Holden built cabs which differed from the American/Canadian lend lease vehicles by having quarter vent windows in the cab and vents in the cowl sides. Some Aussie vehicles though were left with civilian pattern wheels which explains the different wheel styles with some having dual wheels on the back. Most MCP's were also fitted with a 2 speed rear axle as well.


Lendlease vehicles were also normally higher tonnage rated as the Aussie MCP's were beefed up 30cwt trucks normally whereas the imported ones were 3 tonners often with higher HP motors.

Hope this helps a little

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by cliff

MCP vehicles were civilian models which were modified slightly with an observation hatch in the cab roof plus a MG gallows pole
Hope this helps a little

G'day Cliff,

My 1940 Chevrolet MCP - more is the pity - does not have an observation hatch and no sign of a welded up one either in the roof. Its front mudguards were only slightly raised while still being far lower than the desert ones were cropped. A mate has a full civilian farm truck of my same year and you can tell that the front mudguards were raised a wee bit on my truck.

I do have the fully tilting hinged no crank type desert wind screen though

What is a MG gallows pole and where would it have been what did it look like and what was it used for?

My truck's plates have the colour DLX (Dulux) Khaki 1940 so it was built for the Australian Army by Holden. It still has its khaki colour on the cab and traces of khaki on the metal work of the tray.

It also has traces of paint for an ARN on the bonnet and etched outlines - it is hard to tell where over-painted numbers and the original ARN start and finish.

Due to my truck's lack of major modifications it might have been produced rather early in 1940 and perhaps saw little action - something like a stores vehicle. It might have been why it survived without lots of dents even after its civilian life as a farm truck in the Dalby area of Queensland. Who knows?

P.S. Sorry for the thread hijack Matt!

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

G'day Matt,

The Stovebolt website for old Chevrolet trucks says the following information about 1940 model coding... Hmmm this website does not like tables ... hang on a second .... I made it into an image and attached it.

Accessed November 19, 2016 from, http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/identification/Series

The same chart extends down to the US "War years" with different model numbers.

All these models may not have applied to Australian "Holden" assembled Chevrolets.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Mike K]

You need to get hold of the NASCO ( GMH ) parts catalogue for your particular truck. Those codes on the USA stovebolt site have little or nothing relevant to Australian assembled Chev RHD trucks in 1940 .

The 1940 Chev truck RHD , is Model Series 13,14 and 15 , assembled for the Aust. army - that's straight out of the NASCO book.

eg model 15-40/E2 158 1/2" wb with special 10ft 6" x 7ft G.S. Wagon with Canopy top .

[Lionelgee]

Hello Mike,

Thank you for the tip about NASCO parts books. Much appreciated. I will start to look out for a copy.

I did write in my last message .... "All these models may not have applied to Australian "Holden" assembled Chevrolets".

Kind Regards
Lionel

[mlombard]

Hi Mike, Lionel et al

Interesting discussion here. So I understand the MCP designation is the military 'catch all' to cover these types of vehicle and differentiate them from the 'Blitz' or CMP vehicles.

As you say the military (I assume Australian only,, but maybe others did too) used the numeric code only and not the alphabetical code which GM used on the civilian models. So a 1942 civilian truck of 1.5 tons which had a code of MR or MS would have been a series/model 15 (as per the GM issued Truck Parts manual) or 1500 (as per the D.M.E. Technical Instruction).

So it now is starting to make sense, now all I need to do is determine which is which, so I assume 1500 or 15 is a 1.5 ton truck. The reason I am trying to work the civilian and military models together is that the access I have is to people with civilian parts but they are not local to me.

Anyway thanks to all for your help

Matt

[Mike K]

Lionel

I might see another NASCO parts book at a swap meet ( I got mine from Jack O'Donnell when the place was closing ) . Its amazing what turns up at swap meets. In any case, I can loan you my copy for a while if you need it.

I used the book and the C8 parts book and cross referenced some numbers. Quite a few of the cab 11/12 C8 8 cwt parts are standard Chev car/truck parts eg the brakes, front axle I beam , rear springs and more.

[Lionelgee]

Hello Mike,

Could you scan or take a photograph of the front cover of the NASCO 1940 truck please and post it up? It always makes things easy to find when you know what you are looking for.

Thank you for the offer of a loan of your book. I am in no hurry at the moment. It will be early to mid next year and a big task out of the way first before fun!

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by mlombard

Hi Mike, Lionel et al

So I understand the MCP designation is the military 'catch all' to cover these types of vehicle and differentiate them from the 'Blitz' or CMP vehicles.

Matt

The CMP Ford and Chev vehicles were a specific truck "Family" made to a UK War Department specification by the Canadians. Although they share many standard mechanical parts, they are a distinctly different group of military vehicles.

The Modified Commercial Pattern (MCP) trucks were also a Canadian design change by Ford, Chev and Dodge to (it's sounds obvious when I write this) modify their Standard Commercial trucks to adapt them for Military service. The adaptations included things like larger, wider tyres, better air and oil filtration, and military lighting.

So MCP is the manufacturer's distinction of the vehicle's design to differentiate them from the standard commercial trucks. While on the whole the MCP changes originated from Canadian designs, in common with the standard commercial trucks assembled by GM/H, the Aust Chev MCPs had some unique Aust design features stemming from local manufacture content. Some were instigated by the Army, some by GM/H, but they also appeared in the standard trucks. By contrast, the Ford MCPs were more "true" to the Canadian design as they has less local content.

[mlombard]

Hi et al

Ok, yeap I get it now, the MCP thing does make sense.

I note that in the DME Technical Instructions they also call the, Standard Conventional Patten, or could these be a differentiation for the 'more' conventional types i.e conventional wheels etc.

And of course these MCP (and possible SCP) are derivatives of the, WA and WB from 1940, YR and Ys fro 1941 MR and MS from 1942 etc.

In this regard then, am I correct in assuming that the series/model designation of 13/1300, 14/1400, 15/1500 etc. is the carrying capacity (which I assume to be in CWT for Australia). Or does that also have something to do with the wheel base as well. I'm not to sure about the 93/9300, 94/9400 etc. though also listed.

regards

Matt

[mlombard]

Hi

I found a listing of Canadian Chevrolet Chassis and Model Number on the net and it maybe useful you can see it at http://www.gregwapling.com/hotrod/ch...dian-chev.html. It also lists MCP vehicles.

Regards

Matt

[Mike K]

NASCO parts book

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Chevrolet...YAAOSwA3dYGm~g

[mlombard]

Yeap for 1939-1940 that's just what Lionel needs

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by mlombard

Yeap for 1939-1940 that's just what Lionel needs

Hello Matt,

Thanks to Mike, I am aware of the book. However, being unemployed at the moment limits discretionary spending.

Kind Regards
Lionel