Why would i buy a 40 Gal drum of molasses ?

[Robert Bergeron]

For the first time in my life i bought molasses in bulk . Why ? Who gave me that idea and for what ?

[rob love]

Sounds like you will be freeing up some track.


So inquiring minds want to know....what doeas it cost for a 40 gallon drum, and where did you source it from.

[Robert Bergeron]

Thanks Rob for your post.

Congratulations on solving the enigma.

First let me ask a few questions . Should the links and pins be completely covered with the molasses ! How long should i let them stand in the bath ? I intend to use the pressure washer to clean them once the treatment is over . Is it a good idea given water will bring rust ? Should i use paint tinner ?

Now the source. I went to a local feed store . It is a coop run by and for local farmers . I buy tractor parts and feed / salt licks for my deer / moose hunting there . The regular molasses is for mixing with animal feed . The price is $80 for the molasses and $ 29 for the barrel and plumbing ( faucet/ spigot ) . If you return the barrel they refund you the $20. If you are good with the clerk , he / she will sell you the barrel that is past the best before date or that was contaminated and is improper to feed to animals . All the molasses sold for animal feeding is not proper for human consumption.

I paid $50 for the spoiled batch i bought and my spare tracks are bathing as we speak in 20 Gallons of the stuff. Sweet smell in my hangar ...

[rob love]

They may flash rust with the water, but no mater what you rinse them with, they will eventually get wet anyway. If your plan is to paint them, there are a number of paints that don't mind a little bit of flash rust...in fact they prefer it for adhesion.



I'll have to check some of the feed supply places here. For that kind of money, why not.

[Robert Bergeron]

I read here somewhere that molasses will unfreeze Carrier tracks.

May the author please chime in with your experience .

How long does it take ?

[Robert Bergeron]

Just saw a post dated 25- 12 - 2016 by Mike Kelly on the subject.

Also saw a post by David Dunlop 03-03 -16.

Only question that remains is how much water do i add to the 20 Gallons of molasses i have already poured on the tracks ?

Any ideas, suggestions, guesses ?

[charlie fitton]

I did it with a ford dist timing fixture, ran the pics here a few years back. brilliant process.

Mixed about 25/75 water, just watch the fun happen.

pull some out after about a week and do a test clean..you can always put it back.

Didnt touch brass, paint, or, surprisingly, decals..

It will rust quickly after you clean and dry it..

[David Dunlop]

And here I thought you were going to be making some Rum, Robert.

David

[Lew Skelton]

I too have had track in Molasses, almost a year now with good results. The track was brand new however had been garden edging for 60 years at a guess. It is due to be taken out and waterblasted again soon as it builds up a black slime whilst soaking. I am unsure of the ratio however two 20kg containers of molasses is all I could afford at the time. soaking in a mix all up at approx 700 litres.
I did smell sweet for a while now it is something un human. I have it at work well ventelated next to a golf course and often see golfers checking there shoes for dog shit😂.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi

Interesting thread, but what do you do with the residue afterward? I've only had to deal with small amounts which I let evaporate and then throw out with the trash. But 55 gallons plus the dissolved rust think my trash guy would object.

Cheers Phil

[Robert Bergeron]

Thanks Charlie ( nice pictures ) , David ( Rum , now that’s a good idea but cookies are more socialy acceptable) Lew ( your daughter i presume , nice ) & Phil ( yes, what happens with the waste ? ) for your posts guys.

I don’t know how this is going to turn out . Charlie i will check one of the tracks in about a week as you suggest .

Today i added hot water in equal amount to the molasses volume ( 50-50 ) to the track bath.

The mixture turned a greenish colour within hours .


When this adventure is over i intended to spread the mixture over part of my hay field as fertilizer ? Will i kill all life for the next 100 years ?


When does the terrible smell begin ?

I have the bath inside my truck & Carrier hangar . I regularly work in there ! It is heated at 15 degrees Centigrads .

Anyway , can anyone tell me in simple terms and explain what the heck i am doing and if it will work to free up the links and pins please ? Thanks .

[Robert Bergeron]

One more shot .I am not dreaming , the mixture of molasses and hot water turned green ! I used hot water from the faucet to make sure it mixed well with the molasses and it did .

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

When this adventure is over i intended to spread the mixture over part of my hay field as fertilizer ? Will i kill all life for the next 100 years ?

You will have an excellent spring crop of NOS Carrier Track next year!

[RichardT10829]

Also used molasses to do my tracks, you are best working the links back and forth whilst they are wet during the jet wash phase.

As for flash rust issues, I sprayed my track with POR metal ready, they didn't rust after that.


Left mine in fermented molasses for two weeks and they had been seized solid prior to that.

[Robert Bergeron]

Thanks Tony and Richard . Two weeks ? Now that’s fast ! I will let the whole thing rest for two weeks then i will give it an inspection . Thanks for the suggestions Richard. Rocking the pins & links to free them up is also a very good idea . My tracks are a barn find . All the links are present and there is barely any wear at all except for the fact that the pins and links are frozen . Someone at some point thought it was a good idea to put a torch to the track to free up one link on each track to take them off a Carrier instead of pulling a pin in the conventional way ! Very strange . Anyway , i look forward to the results of this experience . From what you are saying Richard it is a sure thing ! Thanks all. Keep you posted.

[David Herbert]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

All the links are present and there is barely any wear at all except for the fact that the pins and links are frozen . Someone at some point thought it was a good idea to put a torch to the track to free up one link on each track to take them off a Carrier instead of pulling a pin in the conventional way ! !

Heating up track to free it makes it go very brittle and although ok for static exhibit it is VERY dangerous to run on it as it WILL break. The great thing with molasses is that as it is a very slow process it will get between the pins and links and eventually unfreeze them. If you speed things up by heating or electrolysis or a different bath, the easy to get at surfaces will be cleaned quicker but there will be little penetration between the links and the pins. That just needs time. If the track can be flexed a little it will aid penetration if it is moved occasionally but of course there is always one joint that won't move so that is the limit on how long it takes.

With regard to the flash rusting that happens as soon as you remove it from the molasses: If you acquire some of the chemical that is used for removing calcium deposits from inside milking machines you will find that that is quite concentrated phosphoric acid which is the ideal chemical for neutralizing the instant rusting that would otherwise occur. It creates a chemically stable surface from the unstable one left by the molasses. I should mention that this product is not supposed to be used by the general public as it must be treated with great care but if you know a friendly dairy farmer it is ideal. Phosphoric acid is the active ingredient in self etching primers like Bondaprimer and is also used by dentists to etch your teeth before filling a cavity !

David

[Robert Bergeron]

Thanks David for your post. I like the idea of using molasses even more now. I will let time do the work. As for phosphoric acid , i will pass . I really don’t mind rusted tracks. What i mind is pins frozen with links . I have to get rid of the stuff afterwards. So the way ahead i think in my particular situation is to throw away the molasses in a corner of my field when i am finished . Then i might do a POR -15 light spray in the tracks after using the pressure washer to clean everything up. I will bring the tracks back inside the warm hangar and start the a fan and dehumidifier to dry them up thouroughly . I was thinking of a very light coat of motor oil for preservation . When and if i use them i can always pressure wash the oil away. Thanks again David . Cheers .

[Robert Bergeron]

Hi all.

I think that wiggling the tracks while they were in the bath was not such a great idea after all. ...

Well at least not if they are sitting on plastic 8 mm sheets....I am a little scared of what i will find in the hangar in the morning.

[charlie fitton]

...will bring the tracks back inside the warm hangar and start the a fan and dehumidifier to dry them up thouroughly ..

Might I suggest a steam pressure washer to clean them...heats them to dry faster when done...

no oil, holds the dirt like grinding paste.

[RichardT10829]

I used old bath tubs to soak my stuff, and a wheelie bin for other bits and bobs.

Not a fan of Phosphoric acid as it eats into the clean steel too... molasses through the process of chillation only eats the rust.

[David Herbert]

Richard,
I was not suggesting leaving parts in a bath of phosphoric acid. I was advocating that after removing de-rusted parts from a molasses bath, that they be washed off with lots of clean water and then rinsed in phosphoric acid (by immersion, spray or brushing) which will produce a chemically stable coating of ferrous phosphate and thus prevent the rusting that will occur very quickly if no anti rust treatment is applied. Phosphoric acid is the most common active ingredient in anti-rust and self etching primers for steel though I suspect Fertan contains tannic acid but I have never read up on it. I suggested the milking machine cleaning source of phosphoric acid because for those with friends in the dairy industry it is a way to cheaply acquire a decent quantity in a concentration way better than products like Jenolite that is sold to the public. Obviously precautions must be taken with both safety and disposal but this is not difficult.

David

[Lynn Eades]

You can also get inhibitors put into the phosphoric acid, so that it only works on the rust. Phosphoric acid in low doses is present in some of the food you eat.

[david moore]

Especially coca cola and pepsi!!

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by David Herbert

....

If you acquire some of the chemical that is used for removing calcium deposits from inside milking machines ... but if you know a friendly dairy farmer it is ideal. ...

Quite fortuitously, Bob lives in a part of Quebec renowned for its dairy operations. And he is a personable chap, so I'm sure he can make friends with the farmers.

[Robert Bergeron]

Thanks for your good words Terry and your humour Charlie . Thanks for your advice David , Lynn and Richard . I feel lucky being accompanied on this project by advisers from all over the world ! I have covered the whole bath with a 8mm piece of plastic sheet so i don’t / can’t look at it every day. Next week i will pull the tracks out in the sunlight and give them a good spray with the pressure washer with water from the hot water heater. Then the flexing of the track. We shall see what happens next but i suspect they will go back in the bath for another while . I will report on the progress in one week and post pictures. Stay tuned . As for phosphoric acid .. i thought it was something they put in illumination shells , mortar bombs and grenades when they still could , not milking implements and holding tanks ...

[charlie fitton]

Phosphorus....for smoke shells

Magnesium.....for illumination

[Robert Bergeron]

Hey Charlie, i never went much into details when i dealt with GOLF . When i wanted smoke GOLF sent smoke shot over and the world was full of chocking smoke . When i asked for illum , GOLF sent illum shot over and it lit up the night sky like it was day. Cheers. Bob

[charlie fitton]

Only if they used mortars...with arty illum, you still need a flashlight, and smoke? - it's just a wisp of a thought..

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

Hi all.

I think that wiggling the tracks while they were in the bath was not such a great idea after all. ...

....

You'll discover that molasses is very staining. Your shop floor will look pretty ghastly even after clean up. I've had to throw out towels, rags and clothes exposed to the stuff.