Reference: Loose Universal Ends

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All


Well fixing the brake adjuster lead to discovering a problem I didn't know the truck had.




While I was degreasing the back of the brake plates decided to degrease the rear axle and the drive shaft. As the dirt came off I noticed something that didn’t look right. The paint on the two of the universal cups was worn away in a nice circular pattern. Grabbed the drive shaft and something moved. Look at the video to see what and how it was moving





https://youtu.be/Yg9xQSyTcNs



After removing the drive shaft to the bench and removing the spring keepers was able to press the two rear caps on drive shaft side out by hand. The caps and bearings look good. It is that the caps no longer seem to fit as press fit anymore. I have a brand new Spicer Universal on the shelf that I will check to see if it's caps are a press fit.



So now to the question how do you tighten up the fit of the caps?


More to follow.


Cheers Phil


PS- Not sure my physical therapist would approve of me laying under the truck bench pressing drive shafts. Oh and excuse the audio at the end of the video I had an old movie on the TV in the shop.

[Grant Bowker]

I'm sorry Phil but I don't have any suggested answer.
Could you post the youtube link, I only see a .jpg attachment.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Grant


Have reposted the link. Something was wrong with it.


https://youtu.be/Yg9xQSyTcNs


Cheers Phil

[Jordan Baker]

Did a quick google search and found this forum.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...t_cap_spinning

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Jordan



I suspect (or hope) the Loctite 660 will solve the problem. Has anybody in our merry little band used it before, if so with what results?


Now I will be checking the other two trucks for brake adjustment tension springs and now checking each drive shaft.


I don't know if the looseness is a new development, because I have always grab and shaken drive shafts to feel for loosesness when doing a grease job. I always grease the trucks in the spring regardless of how little mileage. Of course the drive line has to have no tension/wind up, or you can't feel play. Often I just put the trucks up on four jack stands to do the spring check up and greasing.



Cheers Phil

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

My worry would be that the cups rotating in the flanges caused enough wear that even new ones would wobble. In a perfect world the spinning occurs with the needle bearings and not between the cups and the flange.

You have to wonder why this happened in the first place. The least resistance would be the greased needle bearings so why the play outside in the cups?

[Lynn Eades]

Bruce you might find that war time production was not as perfect as it should have been? Anyhow loctite should solve it,(that's what they made it for) and to free it in the future, heat does it. Short of replacing the flange or yoke, there aren't many other options.

[Bob Carriere]

I use loctite on all drivesshaft bolts/nuts after finding loose fasterners near the rear of the tranny on the short shaft......

Not sure Loctite is a long term solution for a free fitting U-joint cup.....some mechanics would just dimple the inside of the cup hole for a short term tight fit
but lets face it 75 years and rushed wartime QC may be just catching up.

I would have a NEW yoke installed/welded in place for total piece of mind ......and inspect all other yokes...... no joke!!!!

Amazing what preventive maintenance can save in time later down the road.

I was surprised one year when I found that 3 of the 16 U bolts nuts, different corners, needed to be tightened ..........

Phil.... if you need parts let me know.

[Richard Farrant]

With the age of the truck the U/j's may well have been changed a number of times in the last 75 years, and each time the interference fit would get less. You cannot reclaim the holes. As already mentioned, you could get a driveline specialist to change the yokes. I would not use Loctite. What would be interesting would be to see what condition the journals on the spider are like.

regards, Richard

[Rod Salter]

Just a thought,
The method of removing large bearing cups from dozers is to run a number of hot welds in them to cause the shrinking of the cup as it cools, so it almost falls out

With that pulling effect of welding in mind,
Would a run of weld around the outside of the yokes shrink the hole a few thou?

Perhaps a try on a spare yoke first, have the bearing caps in place and it would lock them up tight?

Or if it ruins them/dosent work, are you any worse off?

I would "give it a go"

balance would not be effected IF equal runs were made

We all know the distorting that welding can do and are quite mindful of it

I have straightened 2 inch plate with repeated welds and grinding

cheers rod

[John D]

An old time bush mechanics fix was to run a bead of weld around the yoke ends with the universal in situ so that the yoke opening shrunk on to the cups.Did it many years ago and seemed to work. Regards John

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

Well the solution I've decided to go with was to have a whole new drive shaft made. Which I picked up this morning, all new Spicer components, I painted it to match the truck this afternoon. Note to self, if I do this again ask the shop not to paint the drive shaft, it took more time to remove the rattle can paint, then it took prime and paint with good enamel paint.

After I've installed it and road tested it I'll share all the part numbers and details, like cost and pictures.


Cheers Phil

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

Well add another note-to-self when you pick a new drive shaft actually put them on the bench and measure them while still at the fabrication shop. I didn't do that step, which means two more trips to the fabrication shop. One to take it back and another to pick it up after they shorten it.

They simply got it wrong.

Went to put in all nicely painted, to match the truck, put the transfer shaft end up to the transfer case, had a strap in place to support it. But with the slip joint fully collapsed it just barely would fit up to the differential mounting flange.




To compare two drive shafts you have to really have to make sure that they are parallel and that the ends are square to each other. Eye balling it just won't work. So if you are trying to measure a driveshaft they go by the distance flange to flange, again the flanges need to be really perpendicular to the shaft. I would add that you want three measurements one with the slip joint all the extended and the another with it fully collapsed, then just for laughs measure center to center between the drive flanges on the transfer-case and the rear axle.


To be continued in the next episode.


Cheers Phil

[James P]

Any job worth doing should be done at least twice..............says the guy who had to cut out the schwimmer transfer case mount, lower it 7mm, then reweld.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

Quick update, 120 miles and extra 4 hours driving the shaft back over to, picking up from the drive line shop the new drive shaft is installed and works fine.

I'll have more details soon, some interesting finds and things to watch for in doing drive shaft replacements.

They just plain measured it wrong, so they cut off the simple end of the shaft shortened it rewelded and rebalanced it and it was ready to go. Guy said it is simple to fix when they are to long but no easy fix for to short.


Cheers Phil

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All


Sorry the delay in getting back with the rest of the story. The new shaft now shortened 1.5 inches works fine. First to the important part list of parts.





C60S Drive Shaft Invoice info.pdf


I've included both a photo of the invoice and a PDF of the parts.


Also added a little test drive




Youtube Link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsG7_r_4hOE


Hope the information is of use.


Cheers Phil