Save Juno Beach............

[Chris Preston]

'Afternoon All,

Not sure if anyone else has seen this, but a French developer wants to redevelop Juno Beach in Normandy, and put sea-side condos on the beach. Would they do this to Omaha Beach? This requires attention:
https://www.savejunobeach.ca/

Chris Preston

[maple_leaf_eh]

Thanks for the heads up. It is their country, and they will do as they wish. But, properly funding the Juno Centre is always a good idea.

[Tim Bell]

Perhaps Canada can buy the land from the developer, thereby safeguarding it for the future?

[Ed Storey]

Originally Posted by Tim Bell

Perhaps Canada can buy the land from the developer, thereby safeguarding it for the future?

Hehehehe, you don't know Canadian politicians that well do you?

[Tim Bell]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

Hehehehe, you don't know Canadian politicians that well do you?

I am sure they are the same as all the others... wont do a damn thing unless it is in their personal interest and financial gain.

[chris vickery]

Really, is it not for the Government of France to deal with?

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

Hehehehe, you don't know Canadian politicians that well do you?

A little background to prove the point. The Canadian government was approached to fund a museum on Juno Beach, the only major country not to have done so.

No interest.

So Walmart of all corporations fundraised and organized the museum you see there today (I won't speak to its quality, maybe it's gotten better since I was there). Then, at the last minute an embarrassed government threw in a little cash and shamelessly took centre stage at the opening ceremony ribbon cutting.

Pardon my cynicism but if our current government could save a few bucks by forgetting about the museum, the beach and the whole historical event called D-Day they'd support oceanfront condos in a heartbeat.

[Ed Storey]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

A little background to prove the point. The Canadian government was approached to fund a museum on Juno Beach, the only major country not to have done so.

No interest.

So Walmart of all corporations fundraised and organized the museum you see there today (I won't speak to its quality, maybe it's gotten better since I was there). Then, at the last minute an embarrassed government threw in a little cash and shamelessly took centre stage at the opening ceremony ribbon cutting.

Pardon my cynicism but if our current government could save a few bucks by forgetting about the museum, the beach and the whole historical event called D-Day they'd support oceanfront condos in a heartbeat.

Bruce, I am glad you provided the background as few people understand the events that transpired with respect to the funding and initial government interest in the museum. I and most Europeans I know who are familiar with SWW history also agree with the you concerning the quality of the museum. In fact, some 10 years ago, the museum was close to being permanently shuttered due to low visitation and required additional federal funding just to stay open.

Looking at their 11th hour plea for support, I would have thought that this move to build condos close to the museum would have been brought to the public's attention long before now. As well, the wording of the pleas is not very specific as to exactly where the proposed condos are going, I think I know the location but am not 100% sure, so it might be hard to garner support without more precise details.

While we all hate to see development encroach on famous battlefields, this is essentially a French matter about French soil and what they want to do with their land. Back in 1993, just ahead of the 50th Anniversary celebrations, the original Pegasus Bridge was removed and replaced with a newer bridge to accommodate road improvements. Few people were happy at the time given the importance of the bridge to the D-Day story, but that is now in the past as the original bridge is only 60m away forming part of the Pegasus Memorial.

[James P]

Originally Posted by Chris Preston

'Afternoon All,

Not sure if anyone else has seen this, but a French developer wants to redevelop Juno Beach in Normandy, and put sea-side condos on the beach. Would they do this to Omaha Beach? This requires attention:
https://www.savejunobeach.ca/

Chris Preston

I could be all wrong but I doubt that all those huge houses along Blvd de Cauvigny to the east of the Vierville draw (Dog Green and White back in the day) where there on D-Day.

[Lang]

I think it is quite OK for them to do what they want so long as the events are remembered by museums and memorials. It is presently recent history only for old farts but fast fading into old history for the world as a whole.

Almost every inch of Europe and Asia have been swept over by battles far larger and more costly than anything that happened on D-Day (the whole campaign not even in the top 10 for WW2) and they are simply recorded by various markers and a page in a history book - many not even that.

Even the "recent" history of the millions lost in WW1 battles has faded from the collective memory and is commemorated mainly by graveyards and a relatively few museums and town memorials. Much of it is now covered by freeways and towns.

Life goes on, the world keeps turning and once those directly connected to events fade away they become mere footnotes in school history books overtaken by more events relevant to today.

These in turn (no matter how big or far reaching) will eventually be consigned to the pages of irrelevant history as current problems naturally arise. This is the condition of man.

If we are interested we should be doing something about it. How far back do governments have to go?

Lang

For those who are interested this consolidation from Wiki puts some perspective on it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._by_casualties

[Hanno Spoelstra]

“ Canadians fighting proposed condo development at Juno Beach D-Day site”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jun...ment-1.6381018

[Lang]

The museum and nearly all the comments on the article (including those who lost relatives at Juno) seem to have little problem with buildings on the site.

The dispute seems to be little more than a standard commercial problem about roads, access and disruption during construction.

Lang

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Read more here:

https://legionmagazine.com/en/2022/0...on-juno-beach/

[Ed Storey]

After reading the Legion I am even now more confused about the proposed location and wish someone would post a map to show the proposed development site. From my perspective it looks the JUNO Beach Centre is dissatisfied with the impact construction will have on their access road, whereas Clegg appears opposed to all new construction.

The concluding statement about “You don’t see condos on Omaha Beach. You don’t see condos at Dieppe. You don’t see condos at the Battle of Waterloo. Why would you have condos on Juno Beach?” is not quite accurate as the site to the north and west of the Waterloo Bute du Lion was redeveloped a few years ago - for the construction of a new museum and parking.

[rob love]

If you google Juno beach map, you will see the construction site just on the other side of the center's parking lot.

Here is a French article showing where the condo's will be: https://www.ouest-france.fr/normandi...6-49a3371759cb


There would appear to already be some smaller condos in the corner which would already use the center's access road.

[Ed Storey]

Thanks Rob. Looks to me like a 'tempest in a teapot' by the JBC.

[Alex van de Wetering]

The "Ouest-France" article that Rob linked, mentioned the condo's are to be built on the site of an old shipyard. Looking at aerial images and google earth.....and comparing it with the artist impression of the condos..... it looks like the footprint and height of the condo's are pretty much the same as the former shipyard(?)

Attached aerial pictures from 1944, 1993 and 2021......it also shows the access roads haven't changed much.

[peter simundson]

A little foresight on the part of the Board of the JBC could have

secured nearby properties or if the Cdn. Gov't had shown the slightest

interest they may have invested in nearby properties.

As it was the JBC sold "bricks" for naming which turned out to be

1" X 2" tiny aluminum plaques. The QOR donated a suitcase of artifacts and a

No. 4 Sniper's Rifle. None of which could be found when I toured

the building.

Peter Simundson

[Ed Storey]

Attached are a couple of Google Street View screen shots, the first shows the site of the new condos and the second gives a view of the general area. We know that for a couple of weeks every five years in June the place turns into a zoo, but I wonder what housing prices are like in Normandy...?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Good to see people on here getting the facts right.

So nothing it being built ON Juno beach like some sources claim. Surely new houses will lead to increased use of the existing roads, but in June traffic is horrific anyway with thousands of HMVs and white campers clogging up the roads. At the Longues sur Mer battery a new parking lot is being built to help digest the traffic.

[Jordan Baker]

My opinion is to let them build. I think it’s great that thanks to our veterans the French have the ability to be building near these sites. Is time supposed to stand still for ever? Of course not. The last time I was at Dieppe, it was for the 75th Anniversary. There was a large Summer festival including midway rides located on the grass promenade between the beach and the town. Some were understandably upset that such a festival was taking place in a place where their loved ones had been killed or wounded or captured. However I told them look at it in a different light of isn’t it great that people are able to have fun and carry on with life in a place and not to let 9hrs define it for ever.

[rob love]

I agree with Jordan. The whole country was a battlefield, and more than once. Progress is progress. There is a museum there now, and hopefully it will be there for a long time.

As to the damage on their road, both from construction now and the increased traffic from the condos in the future, that is a civil matter. Unfortunate for the museum...perhaps they can relinquish the road to the city and the city would have to maintain it. Unfortunate that the museum had to spend $400,000 to try and prevent the use of the road.

About 12 years ago, a neighbor was going to subdivide and sell the 20 acres which bordered the back of my triangular shaped property. I live rural so as to not have neighbors that close to me. So I bought the property from her to leave alone. It was either pay up or live with the progress. The property will one day be a nest egg for us or our heirs when we move on.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Jordan Baker fully agree. It is a redevelopment of an existing site, not part of what was Juno beach. The main problem is that the road leading up to Juno Beach Centre will now have to be shared with builders and then inhabitants of the new appartement buildings.
It seems most people who get angry about this think the apartments are being built ON the beach and this is clearly incorrect.

[chris vickery]

Agree with the others as posted previously. Construction of the Museum itself altered the landscape in its own right.
As Rob L pointed out, Europe was all a battlefield. Rebuilding it was part of progress as well as healing.
One only has to look right here at home to see ancient battlefields paved over for development.
Look to the Niagara peninsula and shores of Lake Ontario (War of 1812), Quebec (1756) etc. The former site of Camp X is hardly even decernable now albeit from a small memorial park tucked in between large buildings in an industrial development.
We can hardly criticize the actions of the sovereign Nation of France while we have committed the same thing right here.
And don’t forget, We were Visitors in 1944 and it wasn’t and still isn’t Ours.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/vet...pute-1.6418142

This is getting ridiculous. The French court ruled over this matter. What is the Canadian government going to do about it?

My humble opinion is that if the Canadian Government and the people behind “save Juno beach” are serous they would make the centre a star attraction that would pay real respect to the Juno Beach veterans, one that would draw a huge crowd. Currently it is not really worth visiting more than once, in my humble opinion. I wouldn’t be surprised if the people who are stirring this up are after some sort of law suit to reap benefits from damages paid, if it would come to that.

[chris vickery]

Hanno, I personally don’t consider CBC news worthy of my time nor my respect.
I certainly wouldn’t put any weight or value on their journalism….

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

When I was at the museum I asked one of the staff about its shape and silver exterior, hoping to understand the significance and symbolism behind it. The bright young thing cheerfully said it was meant to resemble fish scales, a salmon more precisely. Why? I asked, what's the connection to Canadians and D-Day? All I got was a blank stare and silence.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by chris vickery

Hanno, I personally don’t consider CBC news worthy of my time nor my respect.
I certainly wouldn’t put any weight or value on their journalism….

Ah, but you did notice how the CBC jammed in another phot op of our boy Prime Minister being, well, all supportive-like of our veterans. Glam and no substance of course but optics are optics.

[rob love]

Word out now that the property is being bought with help from Canada.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...4020d5d7389fef

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by rob love

Word out now that the property is being bought with help from Canada.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...es/ar-AA12H6dz

I hope the Canadian government will make an effort to do justice to the heritage of Juno beach and make more of a statement then they do now with the Juno Beach centre (which is one of the least attractive museums in Normandy, IMHO)