Paint...

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[Jordan Baker]

Hi Brad

Look down a few posts for my thread on Khaki Green #3.

Since the paint has dried it is very close to the original I had matched off of parts and one of my helmets. I think I posted that it seemed way to "greyed" out at first. But now thats its been a few weeks later it has really changed to a much richer greeny/brown colour.

This photo is the best that I have of the front end in direct sun.

[Tim Sullivan]

Brad,

I bought a couple of rattle cans of a Gillespie paint, I can't remember the exact colour number, but I believe it was the 34087, or something to that effect (not 319 or 33070... the OTHER colour) Markus at Willy's Acres has it on his site, what he describes as Khaki Drab paint. That stuff is quite a pleasing colour, definatly a different shade than the U.S. OD and almost exactly (from the photos of Jordan's stuff) a similar colour to what Jordan has on his carrier. Note that Markus no longer sells Gillespie brand, the stuff he has is the other stuff on the market, I've used it on my jeep and am very pleased with the effect. Sprays nicely, dries quickly and seems to be quite durable, from the two or three weeks of assembly wear it's gotten. Once I actually get IN the jeep and driving it I can give you a better report. Friends that have used it have been more than pleased with it, they say they can't scuff it off even if they try....

I actually thought of painting my jeep in the colour (as I'm doing it as Brit/Canadian) but from the research I've done (thanks in part to the MLU'ers) the jeep wouldn't have been re-painted from the U.S. OD. Ah well, it'll stick out with the MME scheme, that's for sure! hehehe...

Hope that helps!

Tim

[cmperry4]

Was just poking round Willys Acres website and he appears to still be carrying the Gillespie line.

He lists 34087 as the 'khaki' OD, 319 as "late WWII" OD. (With 33070 as "early" OD and 24087 as semigloss OD.)

Hidden remnants of the OD on my '45 HUP I have been told are "khaki" OD, but they seem close enough to "late" or "U.S." OD to my eye. My C8A was built at the end of August '45 - which is "late" to be sure, but I will probably go with the "khaki" as seems more "Canadian."

OTOH, I have also read that some like the semi-gloss, saying it wears, washes and weathers better.

[Stewart Loy]

I would give second thought to paint that is too flat.

My most recent project was sprayed in 'lusterless olive drab' 34087 and looks nice. The problem is that it shows every boot mark and scuff - it cleans up nice because it is CARC, but if I were to be able to do it again I would have chosen a darker semi-gloss.

And it would look less jeep like ( although it was made at the jeep plant in MA ).

BTW - I ordered a taillamp from Markup at Willys Acres last December, and have not seen ( or heard from him ) since my cheque cleared the bank.


Stewart

[Tim Sullivan]

Mark,

I know for sure, as of six months ago at least, that Markus was no longer carrying Gillespie paint. When I ordered my stuff (the 33070 colour) Markus said he was no longer carrying Gillespie when I talked to him (and his website listed him as carrying Gillespie).

The stuff I did buy from him seems to be great stuff, it's been about two months since I sprayed it and it is holding up pretty well, I have friends who have used the stuff from WA and they have no complaints at all. It's not Gillespie, but it seems to have the same reputation for quality as the Gillespie stuff.

Tim

[chris vickery]

Stewart, with regard to your T16 being too flat and showing marks. Its a MV and its supposed to look like that. Add some dents dings and scratches, a bit of mud and there you go!
Actually, I have read that when vehs and crew were to be inspected, they often gave the paintjob on their respective mv a rub down with old motor oil to give them a bit of sheen. Hides all those hand and boot marks on the flat paint...

[Stewart Loy]

Chris,

I had heard about the oily rub down ( easy Geoff, for the MV, not the driver ), but had never seen it done in real life. Except yesterday when I discovered how much engine oil remains in a 216 filter cartridge after it has been 'drained', then plopped onto a detached CMP door.

The dull paint came to life, a bit shiny perhaps, but there was lots of oil applied - perhaps when it dries up it will be right. It does clear up those unsighlty scuffs on the OD.

Now if only I could get that wanker at Willys Acres to mail me a freaking tail light bulb ... "Caveat emptor" Motors might be an appropriate name change up there in Oro.


Stewart

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Stewart Loy
The dull paint came to life, a bit shiny perhaps, but there was lots of oil applied - perhaps when it dries up it will be right. It does clear up those unsighlty scuffs on the OD.

Diesel fuel also works great.

H.

[Tim Sullivan]

Stewart,

Yep, one of my buddies usually wipes his M38 down with oil to clean it, and he loves the result he gets, and has been doing it for years. Definatly gives it a SLIGHT sheen (nothing too major) but makes his jeep look great, and I think would work well for the T-16.

Which tail light do you need? I've got a few spares, so can always give one to "The Kid" to pass along to you the next time I see Jordan. I've got a few spare 6 v and 12 v tail light bulbs sitting around, they're for the jeep tail lights, but I think they are the same, yes/no? you're welcome to one of them if you want it. Again, you'll have to put up with Jordan, but you deal with it fairly well

As far as WA goes, I've never had any problems ordering from Markus, aside from him never having what I need, but every time I order I usually recieve the items in 3-4 days. I wouldn't trust Markus to rebuild/fix anything for me, but I'd trust him to ship parts. Mind you, I ALWAYS call, never e-mail as he never gets back to you...even by phone it can take a while

Tim

just looking for some input on paint quality. I am getting ready to sandblast and paint my Sexton hull and am having a **** of a time trying to get some local paint shops to mix what I want. Apparently the 33070 is supposed to be the right shade, I was wondering how well the Gillespie or equivelent paint stands up to the automotive paints, as there is quite a price difference. Is there much difference between the early and late shades of olive drab? Any thoughts?
Perry

[Stewart Loy]

Tim,

Jordan can be a handful - can't he? I wish I was that eager ( as does my boss - but that's another story ).

All of the jeep lights are the same - except for being 6 or 12 volt. I got the one I needed from John Bizal in MN. I was impressed with the way it worked with John - I called him, I paid for the parts, then the parts were sent. I got them less than a week after we spoke. The right part, the right price - wonderful.

This is more than I can say for Markup at Willys Acres. If I could leave negative feedback on his site, I certainly would. ( If anybody wants to hear the whole story, they can contact me off line. )

Thanks anyway for the offer, and the oily tip.


Stewart

[chris vickery]

Perry, I painted the IHC halftrack in 33070 and was not completely satisfied w/ the colour. It may have been perhaps that I added a bit of hardener to my pot, anyhow it came out too shiny for my taste. The colour is OK but the shine must go. I will be repainting the HT.
Gillepie Coatings are a nice paint to apply and pretty durable. I have painted a couple things with it. The main prob now is that Willy's Acres is no longer carrying said product and now has some other US mfg paint.
I have also used automotive enamel from ICI. It will run you around $75 Gal but is very durable and sprays nicely.
The only problem w/ automotive paint is that the base is usually gloss and one must add at least 1Quart of flatting agent per gallon, sometimes more.
If you are coming to the auction in Acton on Saturday there is about 20 gallons of real mv paint there.
It would certainly be nice for all of us collectors to come up with some standard colours and a formula or source where we could all buy from.
I would certainly be tempted to use an epoxy or urethane coating in the future and I may persue that angle. At the very least, use epoxy primer under whatever paint you are applying. Just make sure to top coat epoxy primer within 24 hrs or else you'll be doing some sanding and its not easy. Most paints will adhere to the epoxy. All my resto stuff now gets it.
This whole issue of paint is a crazy mess.

[Tim Sullivan]

To answer your question on the MV paint that is out there, I haven't heard anyone mention anything negative about Gillespie, nor the paint that Markus offers. I bought the stuff Markus has, the 33070 stuff, it sprayed well, covers well and I'm very happy with it.

Regarding colours between 319, 33070, or...the khaki shade, what is it, 34807 or something like that? At any rate, depending on who you talk to, you'll either hear that (insert paint colour code here, either 319 OR 33070) is the exact same colour as the NOS parts/unexposed part off of my jeep... or you'll even hear that neither 319 or 33070 are the correct OD shade for U.S. based vehs from WWII.

I personally have NOS parts (or what I THINK are NOS parts) and they are the same (or damn close enough) to the paint I used, 33070, and close enough to repro parts I bought as well. All paints I've seen are definatly in the same spectrum of OD..at least to my broken eyes

Saying that, the khaki drab paint, 34708 or whatever the code is, is a very close match to the Commonwealth khaki drab paint used mid-war, before dog turd brown.

Hope that helps!

Tim

[Pete Ashby]

The Oxford crew have used clean engine oil diluted with petrol but this needs to be done outside and definitely not with a fag on (that’s English speak for a cigarette for the benefit of our American members, I believe in your language it has another connotation !!).

The best by a mile however is baby oil, smells good, the ladies like it, don’t give you dermatitis and puts a wonderful deep satin hue into the paint and if there's any left over well it’s up to you what use you put it to

Messer’s Winnington Ball and Spoelstra can testify to the prize winning results of this little bit of bullshit, the paint I mean nothing else !!

Pete

[Richard Farrant]

A common method we have used for years in England, is a water displacing preservative / releaser called Duck Oil (somewhat similar to WD40), no silicones in it, easily washed off if paint touch up is needed.

The benefit of Duck Oil, is that it can seep under joints in panels, brackets, etc and helps stop rust from forming. You just spray it on and wipe off, it rejuvenates old OD. Looks very shiny until the fluid evaporates then has that fresh paint look.

Also, I always use Semi-matt shades as they are more durable, a dead flat matt will absorb oil spots or streaks and it is impossible to remove.

Richard

[Phil Waterman]

Now to added to the FORD vs CHEV debate- There are CMPs that are perfectly capable of doing their own oil coating without help from the driver other than to keep refilling the crankcase. Now it is only fair to say that they do a quicker job coating the following truck. Now the real question is which manufacture should get the Exxon Valdez Award. Which are the worst oil leakers? Fords or Chevrolets, my vote is for Chevys

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Phil Waterman
Now the real question is which manufacture should get the Exxon Valdez Award. Which are the worst oil leakers? Fords or Chevrolets, my vote is for Chevys

Phil,

You are probably right with Chevs as they have tin side covers and rocker box, all notorious for leaks......Bedfords just the same, from 1930's to the last ones in the 80's. The main problem was the viscious circle of covers leaking, cover tightened, then leaking again due to distortion.

So it looks like GM products get the award.

Richard

[Bill Mulholland]

A couple of points to further add to the paint and shine saga. In the Cdn Army prior to EC(environmental correctness) we used a mix of varsol and oil to shine up the kit prior to a parade or inspection. Looked great for a couple of days. Bad thing was that at that time C.......S.... ruled over common sense, and we had to do the same thing in the field if a Dog and Pony was to happen. Proper bugger to clean when you got back to the hangar, but another good lashing of V&O kept the old man happy and you got to the beer quicker. On paint, I have for me at least,the magical elixer. Got the recipe from Rob Fast after an enquiry re the colour he used on Nipper his HUP. I just painted my F15A and 180 gal water trl with this paint and the result is fantastic. The colour is almost a perfect match to a panel I pulled out from under my Ford that hadnt been beat up with time etc. The paint is Para melamine synthetic enamel. Bloody magic - thin with el cheapo varsol and shoot, no runs, sags, fish-eyes or what ever. I would post a pic but I am doing the duty grand-dad thing and using my sons puter. The other beauty of this potion is the cost, automotive paint 3 times as much, this can be touched up prior to a display for pennys, and no special breathing apparatus required either as needed with 2 part polys. I will post a pic of the finished product when I get back to my own machine. I would be glad to answer any queries on this paint.
Cheers, Bill

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by pkitson
Apparently the 33070 is supposed to be the right shade, (...) Is there much difference between the early and late shades of olive drab? Any thoughts?

Perry, as far as I can tell your Sexton hull number 2115 was built in 1945, and would thus have been painted to British spec S.C.C. 15 Olive Drab which was introduced in April 1944. Mike Starmer gives a mixing formula and describes S.C.C. 15 as "Fresh olive drab, a very dark drab inclined towards green. Unlike the US colour which it resembles when new, this fades green. Noticeable contrast with black and less so with S.C.C. 1A. Definitely NOT blue-green". If you're not convinced, buy Mike's new book or ask him his opinion directly - he's the guru!

Hope this helps,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Pete Ashby
Messer’s Winnington Ball and Spoelstra can testify to the prize winning results of this little bit of bullshit, the paint I mean nothing else !!

I can testify to this, but first I need to think what mess will I be getting myself in by doing so :


H.

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Diesel fuel also works great.

H.

Nearly getting to the stage where bottles of premium car wax would be cheaper !

[cmperry4]

A lot of this sounds like what I do with lemon oil on my hardwood floors to treat scuffs and scratches.

Bill M: I'll have to look at my snaps of Nipper and talk to Rob. I had dimly heard that some in Prairie Command had used some sort of 'house paint' - I guess this is it.

Here's a snap of Rob's HUW in what I presume is DTB mixed according to the formula - I would be looking for something closer to OD/Khaki OD for my '45 HUP.

[Pete Ashby]

I can testify to this, but first I need to think what mess will I be getting myself in by doing so

Hanno and there was me believing the Dutch were a broad minded lot, if it's good for the truck it's good for anything else.

Seriously it dries to a semi matt sheen that really brings out the colours.

Pete

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Pete Ashby
Hanno and there was me believing the Dutch were a broad minded lot, if it's good for the truck it's good for anything else.

Pete, of course you're right mate, and as you say, if it's good for the truck it's good for anything else, especially if the ladies like it

H.