DAK ambulance?

[sapper740]

Here's a pic that I found on the internet, don't think it's been posted before. The front tyres are very similar to the ones that were on my C15 when I bought it, which was supposedly used in N. Africa.


CHIMO!

[Rolf S. Ask]

Nice photo of a C60L cab # 11.
And not often I have seen the overflowtank on these early trucks.

Rolf

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Unless my eyes are totally frigged I think it's a # 12 Cab, and therefore one of the huge order for C60L and F60L G/S trucks to contract S/M 2019 delivered to the Mid-East and then issued to the British, Australian and New Zealand forces.

Is that a 'WH' prefix on the number plate, for the Heer?

[Rolf S. Ask]

Your eyes are quite well, it is of course a cab 12...

Rolf

[Larry Hayward]

I have seen this photo before in one of my many books - but I have never seen any suggestion that it was in use as an ambulance. I think the large cross on the side of the canvas is a very weathered German Cross with evidence of the black outer lines of such a cross showing. Also the German Cross on the front of the canvas above the cab is the same size. So I am convinced this CMP has no Red Cross on it.

[Rolf S. Ask]

Larry, I don't know if you mean that you have never seen a CMP truck like this used as an ambulance or used as an ambulance by DAK, but here is a photo of a C60L used as an ambulance.
It says 30 cwt, but I think it is a 3 ton, the tyres looks like 20 inch...

Rolf

http://img496.imageshack.us/img496/7530/e0095430gw.jpg

Description: THE BRITISH ARMY IN NORTH AFRICA 1942
A Chevrolet 30cwt truck in use as an ambulance with red crosses painted on its canvas tilt, 22 March 1942.


Source: http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/dbt...&BG=0&FG=0&QS=

[Kuno]

@ David

WH => Wehrmacht Heer
WL => Wehrmacht Luftwaffe

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Larry Hayward
II think the large cross on the side of the canvas is a very weathered German Cross with evidence of the black outer lines of such a cross showing. Also the German Cross on the front of the canvas above the cab is the same size. So I am convinced this CMP has no Red Cross on it.

You're quite right Larry, upon closer examination the cross on the side of the canvas is too thin to be a proper Red Cross symbol.

[Larry Hayward]

Sapper740,

I have just found your photo which I knew I had seen before. It's on page 14 of Panzer Colours 2 by Bruce Culver, Arms & Armour Press 1978.

The caption also mentions the white band over the engine hood; used as an air recognition sign by the DAK

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Both pictures show a CMP with a cargo body style which I have rarely seen. Compare it with the picture below: the one on the right has the same body, one which is lower than the regular 3-ton GS cargo body (shown left). It has mudflaps identical or similar to those found on US-built cargo trucks. A US-built body, perhaps?

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Both pictures show a CMP with a cargo body style which I have rarely seen. Compare it with the picture below: the one on the right has the same body, one which is lower than the regular 3-ton GS cargo body (shown left). It has mudflaps identical or similar to those found on US-built cargo trucks. A US-built body, perhaps?

Interesting question Hanno. The CMP in the bottom right of the photo still has the roundel air recognition symbol so this is probably still early in the war? Perhaps pre-American involvement in which case would it be very likely that we were receiving lend-lease cargo bodies? Whilst surfing the net looking for photos I have noticed many field expedient modifications to trucks, especially those captured by the DAK (check out the truck in the top left hand corner). Any chance these are field modifications to meet a local need? Also, it appears in the photo that none of the trucks have a roof hatch. Is this correct?
One more point....It seems a lot of the CMPs seen in desert photos have a different tyre tread pattern on the front wheels, just as my C15 did when I bought it. My C15 was supposedly in N. Africa. Any thoughts on this?


CHIMO!

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The fact that there are # 13 cabs as well as a #12 I think suggests 1942 onwards? The Chevrolet with the roundel may have had a body built locally at the bombed-out GM Near East Ltd, Alexandria plant that was leased to the British forces.

[Rolf S. Ask]

As far as I remember, it was at least five companies supplying bodies for the 3 ton range CMPs.
The photo below shows such one body as on those dessert photos. I do have writen down the id-plates somewhere, but guess it is in my store.
And as mentioned, it can easily be mistaken for a GMC/US body, it even has the hatch at the rear of the body as found on those GMC bodies.

Rolf

[Larry Hayward]

Hanno,

I am surprised you have not seen many photos of the early type of body fitted to many CMPs with No 12 Cabs, which had lower sides than the one seen on later CMPs.

This type of low sided body was made in Canada and this photo came from one of the threads on this site. Although it is fitted to a No 13 Cab vehicle in the attached photos, it was very common as far as I can tell on the No 12 Cab CMPs seen in North Africa, Sicily & Italy. Presumably the body type continued for a few more months once the Canadian factories had switched to No 13 Cab CMPs.

[Larry Hayward]

And another shot of the rear

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by sapper740
The CMP in the bottom right of the photo still has the roundel air recognition symbol so this is probably still early in the war?

The U.S. star was not adopted as the standard AFV recognition marking until the spring of 1944. Prior to this, the combination of the red/white/red AFV flash and a roundel of red, white and blue, similar to early war RAF roundels, was used (see Air recognition roundels on Canadian AFV's).

Also, it appears in the photo that none of the trucks have a roof hatch. Is this correct?

Yes - see canvas-covered square roof hatch.

It seems a lot of the CMPs seen in desert photos have a different tyre tread pattern on the front wheels, just as my C15 did when I bought it. My C15 was supposedly in N. Africa. Any thoughts on this?

Sand pattern tyres were of course desigend for use in sandy areas, but their use was not exclusive to North Africa. I would not bet on your C15 having been in North Africa because of the sand tyres. Wasn't your C15 a heavily modified one?

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by cmpnorge
As far as I remember, it was at least five companies supplying bodies for the 3 ton range CMPs.
The photo below shows such one body as on those dessert photos. I do have writen down the id-plates somewhere, but guess it is in my store.
And as mentioned, it can easily be mistaken for a GMC/US body, it even has the hatch at the rear of the body as found on those GMC bodies.

Thanks for the pic, Rolf. One of your many CMP finds in Norway?
Would be interesting the learn if this type of body was supplied by an US contractor, or if was built by a Canadian contractor based on the standard US cargo body design.

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Larry Hayward
I am surprised you have not seen many photos of the early type of body fitted to many CMPs with No 12 Cabs, which had lower sides than the one seen on later CMPs.

Well I'm sorry Larry, I simply have not come across many period pictures showing this body. If you know of more, please post them here.

I just remembered I posted one in the thread Captured F15 image:

This type of low sided body was made in Canada and this photo came from one of the threads on this site.

Could you please post a link to the thread?

H.

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Sand pattern tyres were of course desigend for use in sandy areas, but their use was not exclusive to North Africa. I would not bet on your C15 having been in North Africa because of the sand tyres. Wasn't your C15 a heavily modified one?

Thank you for directing me to those very educational threads, Hanno. I have much to learn! I'm still trying to research my C15's history. What I do know for certain is that it was sold to Argentina some time after the war, declared surplus and sold to an Argentinian civilian who drove the truck to the U.S. in the '70's and sold it to the previous owner in Illinois. It was left hand drive when it arrived and had an enclosed box on the back that was described to me as some sort of "radio or command box" The box was subsequently removed and disposed of unfortunately. The truck had an Automobile Club of Argentina crest on the rad grill, suggesting the owner may have been a member. I have made attempts at contacting them by email, but I haven't received a reply as of yet. I've also contacted the ebay seller in Argentina who has been selling the mirrors and blackout covers but he has been unable to help me contact the Club.
I was told by the previous American owner that the Argentinian told him what he knew of the truck's history in N. Africa, however, as they say in court, that would be hearsay evidence. I have heard through MLU that the Brits initially preferred 4 X 2 vehicles, but that is also "hearsay" I haven't found any serial numbers stamped on the frame anywhere, I'm not sure where to look and the previous owner removed the data plates to paint the interior of the cab and subsequently lost them! The exterior of the truck has several layers of paint....two shades of green, one of bluish grey, and one of sand.
As you mentioned, the truck has been heavily modified....the cab height has been raised, the doors have roll up windows, one piece windscreen, and of course, lefthand drive. I've included a pic of where I'm at so far. I hope all the CMP purists hold their scorn as this is just phase one of the restoration (I really need a box!) and when you consider what I had to start with, it ain't so bad.


CHIMO!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Larry Hayward
This type of low sided body was made in Canada and this photo came from one of the threads on this site.

Found it: Chevrolet C60L with early GS body. So it is a Canadian Brantford 5D4 body.

Thanks,
Hanno

P.S.: I edited your posting to include links to the original picture, instead of re-attaching them.

[Rolf S. Ask]

Hanno, the truck is in Norway, but belongs to a friend of mine.

Also the body on the truck I showed is made by Brantford, but it is a 5D2 body.

I thought it was 5 manufacturers, but have found nine. Don't know if they made bodies for all the range of CMP's.
They are:

Wilson Motor Bodies Ltd, Toronto
W.D. Beath and Son Ltd, Toronto
Gotfredson Truck Co Ltd, Walkersville
Truck Enginering Ltd, Woodstock
Preston Metal Products Ltd, Preston
Dominion Truck Body Ltd, Kitchener
Canadian Top & Body Company, Tillbury
Motor Coach Industries, Winnipeg
Brantford Coach and Body Co Ltd, Brantford

And then, is all the places in Canada?

Rolf

[sapper740]

Originally posted by cmpnorge
I thought it was 5 manufacturers, but have found nine. Don't know if they made bodies for all the range of CMP's.
They are:

Wilson Motor Bodies Ltd, Toronto
W.D. Beath and Son Ltd, Toronto
Gotfredson Truck Co Ltd, Walkersville
Truck Enginering Ltd, Woodstock
Preston Metal Products Ltd, Preston
Dominion Truck Body Ltd, Kitchener
Canadian Top & Body Company, Tillbury
Motor Coach Industries, Winnipeg
Brantford Coach and Body Co Ltd, Brantford

And then, is all the places in Canada?

Yep, all Canadian. 8 in the province of Ontario, Winnipeg the exception which is in the province of Manitoba. I believe Motor Coach Industries still makes buses.



CHIMO!